tynet-lichat/shirakumo - IRC Chatlog
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16:18:30
Ichiban
I just wanted to say thank you for all the work you guys have put in common lisp tools and libraries
16:23:52
Ichiban
I see. That's great. It's amazing to see so much already. Looks like you are getting into 3d visual rendering nowadays
16:25:35
Ichiban
your so talented. I looked at your commits and felt jealousy for the firs time in years. I usually don't care about what other people have or do, so that was an unsual feeling
16:29:27
Ichiban
Do you mean, in general to work on what interests you, for lisp projects, or to work on a project .
16:30:30
Ichiban
i assumed you were independantly wealthy or lived with rich parents, given you output
16:30:52
Ichiban
i just couldn't think of a way you managed to be that productive without getting payed
16:31:50
Ichiban
i've only recently been in a position where i can concentrate enough to work on stuff
16:33:49
shinmera
Not counting any salary to myself for work done, I would need about 50k to recoup the rest of the investments not covered by grant money I received.
16:37:31
Ichiban
Well, i have no doubt you will find a way. Getting to money i just another function defition.
16:38:33
shinmera
My general anticapitalist tendencies and absolute inability to do marketing make it unlikely that I'll be able to make my venture sustainable
16:45:32
Ichiban
I'm coming from a place of gratitude, some of your tools, like portacle have really helped me.
16:47:05
Ichiban
I like computers but i was given a C++ book as a kid. If i had been given a CL book my whole life would have been different
16:47:34
Ichiban
I tried all the other IDE's except lispworks and Portacle is opening up a whole world
16:50:35
Ichiban
If i was rich i'd give you 50k just for the inspiration. But what i'm trying to say is, maybe you can learn marketing. Maybe you can change your mind about money and its role in society. The way i see it , money and capital is just society thanking you for doing something it needs. Corporate Monopolies and gov, and all that is different of course.
16:52:07
shinmera
Hence why I spent around 25k on marketing folks to do it for me, but that didn't recoup either.
16:53:05
Ichiban
If anybody will get accepted into post-scarcity alien civilization when they visit it's you .
16:53:38
shinmera
I'd rather we just got UBI, but I live in a dumb conservative country, so I don't know that that'll happen in my lifetime.
16:58:02
Ichiban
One thing i learned about business and what business people do is PIVOT. When one venture does not return, they flip it into something that will. Game not selling ? modify it for a receptive market like preppers or kids, and market to them directly. Selll it as a tool to learn how to survive the APOC. Make it christian, make it about jesus or whatever your country is about. You don't have to sell your soul, but there are a certain set
16:59:08
Ichiban
Black eyed peas used to be am agressive street rap band, and then took on fergie and became pop for a while. The money they made from that allowed them to pivot into other soul projects
17:00:36
shinmera
Such a mod requires a lot of development, and even if it didn't, just releasing a game gives you zero visibility
17:00:44
Ichiban
Example: instead of a long game narrative. Release a shorter one for mobile geared towards a market.
17:01:31
Ichiban
Much simpler, that uses what you already have, somehow. The somehow is your magic of course
17:03:19
shinmera
Listen, I don't want to sound mean, but I've been over this with other industry people, marketing specialists, and I've spent a significant amount of time researching options and thinking about it.
17:03:33
Ichiban
what i mean is, look at star citizen. They have sub games all running the same engine. different parts that bit by bit, literally contribut to the whole
17:04:45
Ichiban
the players like te game and the dude is not hungry. it may be a grift, but what about society is not .
17:05:36
Ichiban
How much time would it take to make a mini game using the whip from your main game , on mobile ?
17:06:20
|3b|
(and also lots of luck, like having recognizable name, past credits on something popular, etc)
17:08:13
Ichiban
Really? my headcannon is telling me there is a way to port a lisp program as a web app.
17:09:05
|3b|
"a lisp program" isn't very specific. once you get specific, you would probably have to rewrite the entire engine
17:11:16
|3b|
and porting something designed for desktop opengl to "a web app" or "a mobile app", neither of which have desktop opengl, is not trivial
17:12:52
|3b|
currently for CL, you can run ecl on android, or buy lispworks, both of which would probably require porting and optimization for the specific implemention, etc
17:16:04
|3b|
and then there is the problem of trying to get enough money to notice from mobile stuff before the bigger companies clone it and throw a pile of money into marketing their clone
17:16:53
shinmera
trying to sell premium apps is pretty much a doa deal, and if you're not going premium, you're gonna need to exploit your customers.
17:20:11
|3b|
ACTION thinks porn industry could be interesting from a 3d graphics experimentation perspective, pretty much best case for rendering... very small fixed # of characters, small environment, etc so you can spend a lot of GPU on fancy effects compared to something more general
17:21:15
Ichiban
wait, that's about pets. Not the dating sim i was thinking of. unless....wait what ?
17:21:16
|3b|
and high-end graphics hardware requirements probably aren't the best fit for that market
17:21:38
shinmera
It is a game in the dating sim genre. It is completely safe for work and wholesome, though.
17:22:58
Ichiban
So what i'm hearing, is you have all the tools to make an XXX dating sim type thing, for atarget market willing to pay
17:23:49
|3b|
and having tools doesn't reduce the amount of art and writing you would need for a dating sim anyway
17:26:18
shinmera
Mobile and VR both are their own markets that have highly specialised types of experiences and customers (and for mobile revenue streams).
17:29:07
shinmera
No they don't. People will look on mobile for mobile-type games, on vr stores for vr-type games, and on pc/console for premium games.
17:29:39
shinmera
The only competition is between console and PC, and console is on the losing side at this point in time.
17:32:05
|3b|
(and worse, how many would you notice once it was cloned and fallout branding/marketing added to the concept)
17:33:24
|3b|
also, at some point /everything/ is competing, you would have stopped playing the mobile game to watch a good fallout tv show
17:35:06
shinmera
The conclusions I've come to are that you need a lot of money to make a lot of money, and even if you have a lot of money you can still not get the lucky hit to make the money back
17:36:39
shinmera
And I guarantee you that there's a lot of really good games in there from really talented folks that tried really hard.
17:37:57
shinmera
You never hear about most people because, well, if you did, they probably had not failed :)
17:40:59
|3b|
though a lot of physical businesses like restaurants have much better "failure" than games. paying the operators a decent salary for a few years then running out of money and closing probably still counts as "failed"
17:44:19
|3b|
ACTION more meant that the model there is "x years of success followed by failure" = "failure", while games are "
18:04:21
shinmera
I was initially hoping to combine the lisp gamejam with the new trial systems and pride month, but evidently things did not align
18:15:54
Ichiban
When i become emperor of the world i'm forcing everyone to use it. No more declarative langs
18:20:11
shinmera
Speaking of that, my new keychron q6 owns, but I've been having a weirdly high amount of double-presses on keys
18:21:07
shinmera
I agree with the thought, but have been unable to come up with something else. It inevitably devolves into a scene graph.
18:23:28
Colleen
congrats on being the first person to get me to put something in my 2024 calendar haha
18:23:28
froggey
congrats on being the first person to get me to put something in my 2024 calendar haha
19:53:10
Colleen
day2 is done, day1 is being (re)done having found some deficiencies in my approach while doing day2
19:53:10
SAL9000
day2 is done, day1 is being (re)done having found some deficiencies in my approach while doing day2
20:16:44
Colleen
Shinmera: silly question perhaps but have you seen any reasonable libraries/tools for (semi-)automatic video editing stuff? trying to figure out a way to reduce the scale of this workload for els'24
20:16:44
SAL9000
Shinmera: silly question perhaps but have you seen any reasonable libraries/tools for (semi-)automatic video editing stuff? trying to figure out a way to reduce the scale of this workload for els'24
20:17:31
shinmera
there's some website that spits out ffmpeg commands from a more reasonable UI but I forget the name.
20:18:07
Colleen
...true, but how would you contort that into (e.g.) detecting transitions from talk -> question -> response -> intermission based on a/v cues? maybe I'm trying to do too much lol
20:18:07
SAL9000
...true, but how would you contort that into (e.g.) detecting transitions from talk -> question -> response -> intermission based on a/v cues? maybe I'm trying to do too much lol
20:18:52
Colleen
admittedly, I think I have a semi-workable set of compressor parameters to deal with the volume differences between Q & A by this point
20:18:52
SAL9000
admittedly, I think I have a semi-workable set of compressor parameters to deal with the volume differences between Q & A by this point
20:19:23
shinmera
Detecting it is too hard, I'd just jot down timestamps during ELS and then cut it based on that.
20:19:25
Colleen
half of what makes this a PITA is working with 8h-long video files is not exactly ergonomic but I want to avoid double re-encoding
20:19:25
SAL9000
half of what makes this a PITA is working with 8h-long video files is not exactly ergonomic but I want to avoid double re-encoding
20:20:44
Colleen
I remember playing around with davinci resolve and suchlike, ended up running headfirst into "it expects Professional Input Formats" aka "your disk space? what disk space?"
20:20:44
SAL9000
I remember playing around with davinci resolve and suchlike, ended up running headfirst into "it expects Professional Input Formats" aka "your disk space? what disk space?"
20:21:35
shinmera
yeah that can be a problem, but you can remux an mkv to an mp4 in obs very quickly.
20:22:26
Colleen
maybe I should try losslesscut or similar to pre-slice into smaller clips, so I'm not trying to work with the whole thing more than I have to
20:22:26
SAL9000
maybe I should try losslesscut or similar to pre-slice into smaller clips, so I'm not trying to work with the whole thing more than I have to
20:25:03
shinmera
I've tried a lot of tools and premiere sucks, but it sucked the least out of all I used.
20:25:34
Colleen
I'm curious as to what bothered you in shotcut - I found it "good enough" for most of my purposes & simple to learn
20:25:34
SAL9000
I'm curious as to what bothered you in shotcut - I found it "good enough" for most of my purposes & simple to learn
20:26:00
shinmera
it's always taking way too long or crashes or the ui is inscrutable, or all of the above.
20:27:23
Colleen
I must be hitting different codepaths or something then, I used shotcut for all the els video edits so far & almost zero crashes
20:27:23
SAL9000
I must be hitting different codepaths or something then, I used shotcut for all the els video edits so far & almost zero crashes