16:16:50ColleenAre there any principals you followed while writing this software?
16:16:50hamzaAre there any principals you followed while writing this software?
16:19:12shinmeraWell, one thing is that it should not impose a whole lot. You can avoid or disable features if you need to. The other is that (through the interface mechanism) things that many apps need (like sessions, authentication, users, profiles, etc.) should be shared to reduce the burden on users.
16:32:56shinmeraI'm not sure what I would write about in a review. I don't feel like I have enough experience with other frameworks to compare in a useful way.
16:33:03shinmeraI know there's others that use Radiance
16:33:25shinmeraBut can't recall who all they are.
16:34:27ColleenWell, I don't care about comparisons, I just just a small pitch on why I should continue (even though I will). I just need some motivation that is all
16:34:27hamzaWell, I don't care about comparisons, I just just a small pitch on why I should continue (even though I will). I just need some motivation that is all
16:34:54shinmeraI wrote a lot of apps with Radiance and I generally enjoy the process. As much as one can enjoy webdev, anyway.
16:37:07shinmeraI'm not sure which one counts as the biggest, if you're worried about scale, but Courier is the latest and one of the bigger ones, I suppose.
16:47:58ColleenWow, does this include your game accounts?
16:47:58hamzaWow, does this include your game accounts?
16:47:59shinmeraIt runs a bunch of other stuff besides radiance. My chat network which the channel you're posting on is bridged to, bots, gitlab/gitea, etc.
16:52:19shinmeraThey have another service that's even cheaper for backups, arctic? or something? but I was too lazy to figure out if that would be better for what I'm doing.
17:02:11shinmeraWhen you click a button or whatever, that's a different URL, so the browser sends a new request to the server, and you get a new page. That's all.
17:02:50ColleenWhat if you want to toggle a section to hide or unhide it.
17:02:50hamzaWhat if you want to toggle a section to hide or unhide it.
17:09:42shinmeraI don't particularly enjoy transpilers that have to break the abstractions they purport to sell every now and again because of incompatible semantics.
17:10:10shinmeraAnd then I don't mind writing the little JS I do write by hand, so I never saw a need to dig for Parenscript and learn how to use it.
17:10:51ColleenSo basically, for front end, you use HTML, CSS and JS. For backend, you use Radiance.
17:10:51hamzaSo basically, for front end, you use HTML, CSS and JS. For backend, you use Radiance.
17:14:30shinmeraGranted, when you have something that's highly interactive like a chat client or whatever, a JS framework can help a lot, since you have to write everything in JS anyway. But for most things just serving some html that you generated on the server well suffices. Maybe with some JS sprinkled on top to handle things like inputs nicely.
17:16:23ColleenWell, my question now: How could you write a chat client like you supposed, with just Common Lisp and little Javascript?
17:16:23hamzaWell, my question now: How could you write a chat client like you supposed, with just Common Lisp and little Javascript?
17:16:37ColleenAlso, do you use things like Spinneret or CL-WHO?
17:16:37hamzaAlso, do you use things like Spinneret or CL-WHO?
17:17:43shinmeraIf the chat doesn't have to be super serious, I'd just make a REST endpoint that gives new messages since a timestamp that the client JS polls for every now and again.
17:18:05shinmeraand sending would be another AJAX request to a REST endpoint.
17:23:32shinmeraDon't have time for too much else these days :/
17:23:48ColleenMore from old videos about from gameengine videos from a guy who is now working somewhere else. He mentioned you trial engine a couple of times.
17:23:48hamzaMore from old videos about from gameengine videos from a guy who is now working somewhere else. He mentioned you trial engine a couple of times.
17:38:42shinmerawho knows, maybe someone else here can answer, too
17:39:05ColleenThanks a bunch for taking out your time to talk with me. I really do apreciate it greatly. (I am CodeBitCookie for people who have seen me elsewhere)
17:39:05hamzaThanks a bunch for taking out your time to talk with me. I really do apreciate it greatly. (I am CodeBitCookie for people who have seen me elsewhere)
17:44:23selwynradiance was discussed recently on #lispcafe iirc, so it attracts some outside interest
17:44:37shinmeraGranted I probably don't like my own name both because there's very little about myself in general that I like, and because I don't like to be reminded of myself, either.
17:44:39selwynthis is certainly the place to ask about it though
18:20:45shinmerapeople who don't like themselves very much I wager
18:45:27ColleenThere's something odd about Dissect. I pushed a bunch of its environment traces into a list called *stacks*, then tried to read one with (dissect::environment-stack (nth 0 *stacks*))
18:45:27phantomics_There's something odd about Dissect. I pushed a bunch of its environment traces into a list called *stacks*, then tried to read one with (dissect::environment-stack (nth 0 *stacks*))
18:45:51ColleenI got an error: Evaluation aborted on #<TYPE-ERROR expected-type: SB-INT:INDEX, datum: #<unknown immediate object, lowtag=#b1001, widetag=#x59 {50201E0300005059}>>.
18:45:51phantomics_I got an error: Evaluation aborted on #<TYPE-ERROR expected-type: SB-INT:INDEX, datum: #<unknown immediate object, lowtag=#b1001, widetag=#x59 {50201E0300005059}>>.
18:46:06shinmeralooks like your trace captured arguments that have dynamic extent.
18:46:19ColleenHowever, when I right-clicked the environment object and used "inspect" in Emacs, it displayed just fine
18:46:19phantomics_However, when I right-clicked the environment object and used "inspect" in Emacs, it displayed just fine
18:46:42shinmeraif you can, best to purify the traces of all references to stuff that you don't know/need.
18:47:11shinmeratrying to look at objects that had dynamic extent can crash your image (or do worse stuff)
18:47:59shinmeracan't say for certain though, many things can cause print errors.
18:48:25ColleenThe issue is that I'm seeing a large number of calls to a certain function that shouldn't be necessary, and I'm working to trace those calls to their source to find what's responsible
18:48:25phantomics_The issue is that I'm seeing a large number of calls to a certain function that shouldn't be necessary, and I'm working to trace those calls to their source to find what's responsible