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Wednesday, 13th of June 2018, 13:50:01 UTC
18:01:48
mfiano
Hey Baggers. How do you feel about CEPL losing Mac support soon? :(
18:06:16
mfiano
Actually stassats commited a fix for the "gamejam macos/sbcl bug"
18:06:49
mfiano
It's actually in your github issue :)
18:07:28
elevatorsimulator
Is the stream a bit choppy, or is it just me?
18:07:50
mfiano
https://github.com/lispgames/cl-sdl2/issues/105#issuecomment-394121654
18:07:52
tycolleen
github.com/lispgames/cl-sdl... Website (HTML), Title: 'Segmentation fault 11' on high sierra · Issue #105 · lispgames/cl-sdl2 · GitHub
18:08:18
mfiano
@elevatorsimulator I think it's just you
18:09:11
elevatorsimulator
Yeah, probably.
18:09:16
d4ryus
this motherfucking d4ryus is late AGAIN... but iam here now :) chellas everyone
18:09:51
rahaldan
stream isn't choppy ... but it seems that Twitch-server have troubles since yesterday
18:10:17
mfiano
Yeah because I have a billion for you sitting there for your off time :)
18:16:36
mfiano
does it overflow or bleed into adjacent memory?
18:29:56
elevatorsimulator
On my machine, the array is zero-initialized.
18:30:22
mfiano
That's undefined behavior. It could be allocating any chunk of memory
18:32:51
rbarraud59
Gooooood Mooooorning Norveges!!11!! :-)
18:46:56
rbarraud59
Cool and wet here this morning
18:47:43
rbarraud59
1 week to solstice - yayy! :-)
18:48:38
rbarraud59
Baggers___ - the ideal alarm clock - gentle wakeup and interesting content :-)
18:49:18
rbarraud59
Sheeesh - how is time going this fast? :-/
18:52:12
rbarraud59
Prefer garlic myselph...
18:53:43
rbarraud59
Is there a standard .chh-gobbler lib -in quicklisp?
18:53:58
rbarraud59
Ditto dynamic linker?
18:54:37
borodust
nope, i prefer c2ffi :D
18:55:28
rbarraud59
Baggers___ How did you manage to get into commercial Lisp programming initially?
18:56:22
rbarraud59
AV is taking big jumps... presumably trying to FF me to live-feed?
18:56:40
rbarraud59
I'm still a Twitch-n00b :-/
18:59:39
rbarraud59
I can't tell how far behind my play is
19:00:00
rbarraud59
[and how long this krazeh jumping will continue :-/ ]
19:00:31
elevatorsimulator
Can you have enums with multiple types?
19:02:32
elevatorsimulator
I think I meant unions, actually. My C is a bit rusty.
19:03:14
d4ryus
elevatorsimulator yes, thats basically the point for using a union :)
19:03:19
rbarraud59
My Rust is a bit C-y...
19:04:01
mfiano
I know cl-sdl2 wraps its pointers with finalizers which is annoying having them garbage collected behind my back.
19:04:02
rbarraud59
A friend is writing a Rust book...
19:04:09
rbarraud59
I should go C him :-)
19:04:21
rbarraud59
I think he may need a bit of encouragement.
19:05:43
rbarraud59
How 'bout type palindroming?
19:06:59
rbarraud59
Was that w3m just then?
19:08:46
rbarraud59
"It will be important..."
19:09:16
rbarraud59
...for a moment there I had a minor panic attack - extrapolated it to "It'll be on the exam" :-/
19:10:12
electromatter
I mean rbarraud59, if you dont want it to crash (SIGBUS) padding/alignment is important!
19:11:05
rbarraud59
Even M68K used to kick yer a$$ that way ;-)
19:11:20
rbarraud59
...and so it should :-)
19:12:01
rbarraud59
Anyone done a Lispy dtrace ?
19:12:30
rbarraud59
quicklisp FlameGraphs?
19:13:03
rbarraud59
eeeek - Syntax!!11!!
19:13:21
rbarraud59
That was what I was meaning by Gobbler :-)Yayyy
19:14:20
borodust
cl-autowrap: https://github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap/
19:14:21
tycolleen
github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap/ Website (HTML), Title: GitHub - rpav/cl-autowrap: (c-include "file.h") => complete FFI wrapper
19:15:35
rbarraud59
I can haz Lispy x64 assembler?
19:16:05
rbarraud59
[Else I will be writing one]
19:17:05
rbarraud59
Get me the header of Alfredo Garcia...
19:18:33
rbarraud59
So with present State Of The Art,
19:18:44
rbarraud59
how much faster is C than CL really?
19:19:09
rbarraud59
...and is the point more to be able to use pre-existing FF libs?
19:19:25
rbarraud59
(an obvious benefit)
19:20:02
electromatter
According to the language shootout, maybe between 2-3x faster
19:20:07
electromatter
But idk how fair that is
19:20:31
rbarraud59
Are there up-t-date benchmark/comparisons on CL (sbcl e.g.) vs. C (llvm/x64 perhaps) for 'typical' use cases?
19:20:51
rbarraud59
Lies, damned lies, benchmarks... :-/ ]
19:21:05
electromatter
like the C code uses threads
19:21:05
borodust
should be reallly careful about using C libs for speed, because FFI has its overhead and sometimes you stumble upon structs-by-value oddities
19:21:14
electromatter
how is that fair lol
19:21:28
rbarraud59
Does CL/sbcl not do threads?
19:21:36
electromatter
thats why its not fair
19:21:50
electromatter
also, the regex benchmark uses a jit
19:21:55
electromatter
I don't think thats fair either
19:22:12
electromatter
because we could write a lispy regex jitter
19:22:23
electromatter
or even just use theirs
19:22:28
rbarraud59
OTOH it'd be easier to write a JIT in CL than C :-)
19:23:08
rbarraud59
You probably know what I'm thinking here eh :-)
19:23:28
rbarraud59
And yes, that is what I am doing...
19:24:07
rbarraud59
Now if only someone would pay me to take over ze Welt!
19:24:43
rbarraud59
[sez the Dude who hasn't yet got lists going correclty - WIP :-) ]
19:26:39
rbarraud59
Look out Dragon Book, I'm Baaaaaccck! ;-)
19:27:12
rbarraud59
OH BTW does anyone have a link to an accurate machine-readable Dragon Book?
19:28:16
rbarraud59
Also: Goin' all Winograd on K&R's ass...
19:29:13
rbarraud59
That pointer is transparently a Dafuxat.
19:29:35
electromatter
what about unicode issues
19:30:00
electromatter
C's char is not the same as CL charater?
19:34:26
rbarraud59
Is there a 'standard' (i.e. de facto most-commonly-used) C-ifier?
19:35:08
rbarraud59
[with preferred type-size hints / smart inference]
19:35:54
rbarraud59
Ah, looks like Baggers___ is at least partially answering that one for me there :-) ?
19:36:10
electromatter
ecl compiles to C
19:36:53
electromatter
kinda hard to get past the cl runtime lol
19:37:39
rbarraud59
ACTION realizing I asked a fairly silly Q
19:37:58
rbarraud59
Heyyy, I'm still on my 1st kawfee here :-/
19:38:20
rbarraud59
Anyone here watching Bone closely?
19:38:31
rbarraud59
[written by the Chicken Dude]
19:38:48
rbarraud59
Yeah exactly electromatter :-)
19:38:58
rbarraud59
If you put a runtime in the C code....
19:39:14
rbarraud59
Which essentially gives you CL again :-)
19:39:29
ak_coram
hi all, am a bit late :/
19:40:00
rbarraud59
better l8 than never :-)
19:40:14
borodust
well, we didn't get height, unfortunately ;p
19:40:24
rbarraud59
no, it's not a mis-spelling of shite!
19:41:00
elevatorsimulator
Probably it’s only used to load square images anyway
19:41:19
rbarraud59
I guess I was thinking more of a C-ifier that C-ified a C-able subset ...
19:41:58
ak_coram
there's some stuff to generate most of this from C header files, right?
19:42:16
rbarraud59
(unwind-protect long-road)?
19:42:18
borodust
ak_coram: yes, a few options there
19:42:18
ak_coram
I've seen it in haskell at least
19:42:31
d4ryus
(from before: https://github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap/)
19:42:32
tycolleen
github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap/ Website (HTML), Title: GitHub - rpav/cl-autowrap: (c-include "file.h") => complete FFI wrapper
19:43:39
rbarraud59
Moar!!! Not 2h yet! :-)
19:43:55
d4ryus
oh man, there is bonus material :O
19:44:52
rbarraud59
[Inserts oversized jackplug in skullbase...]
19:45:10
d4ryus
that was an AWESOME intro to cffi, thank you very much!
19:45:39
rbarraud59
YUSSS!!! We win!! :-)
19:45:58
d4ryus
stream is over, now we enter bonus material
19:46:00
rbarraud59
humanity is the big winner on the day! :-)
19:46:38
rbarraud59
Fly is busted though - indoors-only pants :-/
19:46:42
ak_coram
can you share stuff with C without conversion btw? such as individual cons cells, to implement your sort algorithm in C for example
19:47:20
rbarraud59
ak_coram : Implementation-dependent :
19:47:42
ak_coram
rbarraud59: makes sense...
19:47:50
rbarraud59
When is a cons not a cons?
19:47:57
electromatter
well garbage collection
19:48:01
rbarraud59
When it's a kons (f'rinstance)
19:48:02
electromatter
interaction with C and GC is hard
19:49:11
rbarraud59
Again, GC is an implementation-specific detail...
19:49:31
rbarraud59
Dat's wot it's all about here :-)
19:49:53
rbarraud59
Anyhone here done Swift in CL?
19:51:15
rbarraud59
(cons "Anyone" (rember "Anyhone" !-2))
19:51:35
ak_coram
another completely random question: I recently heard about the term hash consing. is that still used in CL implementations? how about sbcl?
19:52:01
rbarraud59
I'll be doing something like that in places - probably not directly with cons' though
19:52:17
rbarraud59
I'm tagging on the Metal
19:52:55
rbarraud59
cons hashing, pr hash consing?
19:53:11
ak_coram
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_consing
19:53:11
tycolleen
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_... Website (HTML), Title: Hash consing - Wikipedia
19:53:21
electromatter
according to wiki, hash-consing is like memorization of cons cells
19:53:55
rbarraud59
I am thinking along similar lines for my compiler.
19:54:15
ak_coram
yeah, I think this is generally useful for compilers
19:54:17
rbarraud59
local memoizations of immutable/local-env things
19:54:40
rbarraud59
One of many many things to do.
19:55:17
rbarraud59
Part of the reason I call it B0rgScheme...
19:55:37
rbarraud59
...is that it will also assimilate *me* :-)
19:55:45
ak_coram
a fun thing would be to use this for still uncollected garbage, essentially using your unused heap as a cache
19:55:54
rbarraud59
...at least a large number of hours of my time.
19:56:35
captainkraft
Learning Lisp has been on my todo list for YEARS.
19:56:47
rbarraud59
I'm metting my mixaphors...
19:57:49
rbarraud59
(force (action (todolist)))
19:58:00
rbarraud59
Mine's decades long :-/
19:58:32
rbarraud59
Last enumeration yielded 683 entries...
19:59:03
rbarraud59
Yeah ak_coram - if you were cons'ing the later stuffz ;-)
19:59:54
rbarraud59
Is there a less-SHOUTY_ASM switch Baggers___? ;-)
20:00:43
rbarraud59
Dat's what I was asking about Baggers___ - You Da Man!! :-)
20:01:37
rbarraud59
Baggers___ Twitch.tv FTW!!!
20:01:51
d4ryus
lisp never fails to amaze me
20:02:56
borodust
be careful not to dump static vectors them into images!
20:02:57
rbarraud59
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjrjYawt9HbAhVJVZQKHXUrDaYQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FThe-Far-Side-Daily-Comic-1020676467950865%2F&psig=AOvVaw1zl7sI1a_foo6e7bQES2sZ&ust=1529006537106142
20:03:56
rbarraud59
Thanks Baggers___ 'great' I prefer over 'annoying' ;-)
20:06:18
rbarraud59
Which GC book Baggers___?
20:07:11
rbarraud59
xlation: computing never fails to amaze me :-)
20:10:03
electromatter
Thanks for the stream!
20:10:06
ak_coram
great stream as always!
20:10:08
d4ryus
about executeables: hell yes! looking forward to that stream!
20:10:26
d4ryus
Thank you very much as always, great stream!
20:10:40
elevatorsimulator
Great stream!
20:10:50
rbarraud59
GC book ISBN Title Author to show notes? :-)
20:10:54
d4ryus
see you all next week :) have a good time! bye
20:11:41
rbarraud59
We know where you e-live Baggers___ ;-)
20:11:47
baggers___
rbarraud59 http://gchandbook.org/
20:11:47
tycolleen
gchandbook.org/ Website (HTML), Title: The Garbage Collection Handbook
20:12:22
rbarraud59
Presumably NOT sponsored by Waste Management ;-)
Thursday, 14th of June 2018, 1:50:01 UTC