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7:17:34
Shinmera
there's probably thousands if not millions of productivity lost from people constantly bemoaning and arguing this, too.
7:35:23
hayley
Somewhat late to the joke, but if Picolisp ran on 32-bit ARM CPUs, we could have corruption due to type errors on embedded devices too, I think.
7:38:23
hayley
Would call it the C of the Lisp family, but very clever people want to invent something even closer to C still, so I can't joke about that.
7:45:34
lisp123
Alfr: the scale is much lower (number of complainers vs. number of programmers not using CL)
7:48:21
lisp123
On another topic, if anybody is interested in implementing the TeX program in CL, I'm willing to sponsor its development to a certain level
7:48:58
lisp123
Send me a private message if interested. There is a C source code which is probably easier than reading the book (sorry D Knuth)
8:25:04
hayley
I don't. Best ask him in #lispcafe (or ask him to fix his IRC client, so that he can join other rooms).
8:27:24
hayley
It would be nicer to have our discussions on automata in #one-more-re-nightmare rather than scattered between #lispcafe and private messages, too.
8:28:38
hayley
(Now who the hell cloned my repository 96 times per day for the past week? If that's what happens when I submit it to Ultralisp...)
8:34:14
hayley
(That would appear to be the case, as Ultralisp does not detect any of the libraries in the "Telekons" organisation, so I had to input the URL manually, and the site warns "project will be updated only by cron" if one inputs the URL. Darnit)
8:40:12
phantomics
lisp123: As much disgust as I have for many mainstream technologies and the industry surrounding them, some of their dysfunction may have helped us avoid a vastly worse situation than we have now
8:41:20
phantomics
For example, Microsoft's efforts to dominate the computer world were predicated on ubiquitous open-spec hardware. If the PC had failed, all consumer-purchasable computing devices might have ended up being locked-down iOS-like ecosystems
8:46:06
phantomics
And the dysfunction of the Unix-model OSes helped to propel the FOSS movement. If Symbolics had won the desktop computing race and released a near-perfect but proprietary Lisp machine, they might have been bought by IBM with their LispM used as the basis of a centrally-controlled walled garden with software of sufficient reliability that no one would be able to justify attempting to compete with it, leading to perpetual IBM control
8:59:51
lisp123
phantomics: Hard to say where the world would end up...but hopefully in the future it ends up in a better place (although all the lock-downs of technology might make that more difficult)
9:14:57
pjb
phantomics: perhaps. I'd move to make more simulation before time travelling to perform the change.
9:17:04
contrapunctus
lisp123: I'd rather have a word processor where 1. (like LaTeX) users work with semantically structured documents 2. most users don't need to fiddle with the layout, it's handled for them 3. programmatic creation of new data types is easy, but 4. (unlike LaTeX, but like CL) there's no edit-compile-refresh cycle.
9:20:28
lisp123
Still a while away, but its mostly in-browser with a custom text editor (since I was not happy with the offerrings like ProseMirror / AceEditor / etc.)
9:22:22
lisp123
I will open source parts of it later, it should have a lot of the features of Emacs (naturally, given I use Emacs so much)
9:23:36
lisp123
You may want to look at ProseMirror if you are into these things - it has probably the best implementation in-browser and you can do a lot of what you wrote above
9:29:36
lisp123
LispWorks Editor (and maybe Emacs, but I'm not sure) does it in an interesting way - the content is a flat stream of characters, and then there is a concept of 'property regions' (not sure if correct terminology)
9:30:00
lisp123
where properties are marked against certain points in the stream (e.g. from position 4 to 10, add property bold)
9:30:30
lisp123
Naturally then you have to modify the properties region every time you insert/delete text
9:33:33
lisp123
Programmatically, I prefer the LW approach (although I actually do something different, for my particular needs), its easier to manipulate the buffer under that approach vs. having to go in and out of nodes
9:40:18
lisp123
So if you have <b>sometext<i> and this</i></b> -> you can see how property regions make life easier in modifying the properties
9:40:55
lisp123
contrapunctus: the flip side is that tree-based approaches allow for more semantic meaning - you can traverse down the tree for example