libera/#sicl - IRC Chatlog
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10:30:31
nij-
2. How do we effectively ensure that there's no different between ersatz(1) and ersatz(2)?
10:30:31
nij-
3. Why can't ersatz(1) contain LLVM IR (or other IR) in general? After all in order to test them in the host, we only have to execute stuff in ersatz(2).
10:30:33
nij-
4. How will the end product (SICL-produced x86 executable) do garbage management? Do we also have a module that does that?
10:30:36
nij-
5. If we want to add supports (e.g. OS threads, weak pointer, local package.. etc) to the final executable, would it be possible without writing C bindings?
10:30:39
nij-
6. How many phases are there (E0~E5 in the paper?) in total, and what are the goals and (roughly all) steps in each phase?
10:32:39
beach
1. The host may cease to work if polluted with target code. Like the host function ENSURE-GENERIC-FUNCTION creates a generic function in the host global environment. But that's not what the target function does.
10:35:04
beach
5. Anything is possible without C bindings. You can do it either directly i machine code, or in some kind of assembly, like Cluster input.
10:35:41
beach
6. I don't know how many phases there are, and it is kind of arbitrary how many you add beyond 4.
10:36:27
beach
7. Right now for the new bootstrapping procedure? There is no longer an E0, so it starts with E1, and I am currently working in E2.
10:43:51
nij-
5.1. Can we do it in common lisp, and can we observe their effects in the host (before dump)?
10:46:03
beach
Sure, it can be done in Common Lisp since we can always create Cluster instructions from Common Lisp. But we won't be able to execute target native code in the host. Again, that would require an x86 emulator, and the host probably would not allow it.
10:47:48
beach
nij-: I am off for a lunch break. Further questions will be answered when I get back, or perhaps by some other participants.
10:52:49
nij-
Say after SICL is done and got extension of OS threads - before dump, we can interact with SICL executable (predumped) in the host, and that's going to have OS threads effectively?!?!
10:53:23
nij-
Will that predumped SICL also have a working garbage collector and a working debugger?!
10:58:57
nij-
6.1. Any plans on laying them out first? It may be easier when implementing, and it would allow more people to join the discussion. Higher levels can be cast out, and perhaps we can discover issues or the possible need of large-scale rewrite ahead of time.
12:39:03
beach
No, I don't see a way that you can interact with OS aspects of SICL before it is dumped.
12:41:16
beach
The debugger might work. In fact, we already have a primitive "debugger". I am not sure how to organize the debugger yet. I would like to see the preferred way to use SICL to be through a CLIM-based IDE.
12:56:21
yitzi
beach: I know you haven't gotten to khazern, etc. ... but I don't remember if I told you that did some significant work on Cyclosis. It can be loaded extrinsically now which means there will definately be changes when you get to that stage in bootstrapping.
12:57:24
beach
Yes, I pulled it and noticed. I'll deal with it when I get to it. Thanks for letting me know. I do use Khazern already.
12:58:25
yitzi
Ok. Please let me know if I can help in any way. One of the things I added to Cyclosis was a "transcoding" api that takes care of stream-external-format.