libera/#shirakumo - IRC Chatlog
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8:58:18
Colleen
<shinmera> I've also used WaniKani. I have found that doing rote memorisation using cards and such just does not work for me.
9:13:11
Colleen
<shinmera> I just kept repeating old ones over and over and over because I kept forgetting them again after a week or what of not seeing them.
9:24:46
Colleen
<selwyn> despite enjoying languages at school, i never really paid attention to memorising things
10:27:04
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> @shinmera Have you had a chance to look at my pull request for the Radiance tutorial? Would you please make a comment on it if you don't like it?
10:43:18
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> Radiance looks really great. I have only used UCW (UnCommon Web) for CL-based web hosting and I'd say I'm only at an early intermediate stage in using Lisp, so I can't say much more about it except that I'm excited to try it. It seems you and its other developers (if any) have put a lot of effort into fixing problems that crop up in web frameworks like Ruby on Rails.
10:43:57
Colleen
<shinmera> Thanks. Radiance is the.... fifth? sixth? rewrite of my framework that initially started in PHP.
10:45:42
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> I did have some problems with the Radiance tutorial. I think I have sorted some out.
10:47:05
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> Some things didn't work as 'advertised'. I believe the tutorial instructed me to visit a web page that had not yet been defined. I made a note in my version not to expect to be able to visit the web page at that point.
10:47:48
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> If I may ask, what is your first language? (And do you know Japanese, too?)
10:49:45
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> From my understanding, Fukamachi's frameworks are very well respected but not as deep as yours.
10:54:24
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> Have you ever considered getting an entry for Radiance put onto quickdocs.org?
10:54:50
Colleen
<shinmera> quickdocs only indexes the "quicklisp" distribution. For some complicated reasons I cannot put Radiance into the quicklisp dist.
10:55:29
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> Have you spelled out those reasons anywhere? (It might be hard for me to google them.)
10:55:53
Colleen
<shinmera> It's the error you encountered yourself, about no environment being configured.
10:58:41
Colleen
<tomelam@gmail.com> Well, I've got a lot to study. I'm going to head on out of here... Thanks for sharing Radiance!
13:22:41
Colleen
<|3b|> shinmera: theoretically with spaced repetition flashcards you should be able to tune the timing to avoid that, but i think the usual spaced repetition algos optimize for the wrong thing for language learning anyway
13:23:12
Colleen
<shinmera> Maybe, but it's also true that I've just always been absolute dogshit at memorisation.
13:23:36
Colleen
<shinmera> Since a couple days ago I've decided to start my Japanese learning back up, and I'm instead trying my hand at listening to podcasts for a few minutes every evening.
13:23:52
Colleen
<shinmera> Which is a lot closer to how I learned English on my own (reading books)
13:25:23
Colleen
<|3b|> i should start learning a language again one of these days, not sure which though :/
13:26:55
Colleen
<|3b|> and "learn by reading" is one of the main reasons i think the adaptive spaced repetition things optimize for the wrong thing... if the goal is to get to the point of being able to read (or talk or whatever) with minimal disruption, i'd rather optimize for # of words known rather than retention of specific words
13:28:03
Colleen
<shinmera> Yeah, both Anki and Wanikani try to opt for that by allowing you to "burn" or "hide" items that you know you just get over and over.
13:28:13
Colleen
<shinmera> But still, I've found the process of using those aps extremely stressful and tiring.
13:29:01
Colleen
<|3b|> so instead of "i missed this word, so show it again and more often" just have a fixed (exponential) spacing and tune it for maximizing number of words that pass rather than adjusting per word
13:31:42
Colleen
<|3b|> though possibly not focusing on specific words would be a bit less stressful
13:33:14
Colleen
<|3b|> ACTION also wants to try learning whole sentences rather than individual words, but that has the problem of needing to know the language to be able to write flashcards at sentence level :p
13:36:04
Colleen
<|3b|> ACTION learned a bit of german german a long time ago, so i'd probably work on that before swiss german :) fairly low on my list in either case though
13:36:36
Colleen
<selwyn> 3b: you can write ´fill in the gap´ cards while you are learning new grammatical rules
13:36:49
Colleen
<|3b|> though i'm pretty sure what i was learning was out of date even when i was learning it though anyway :)
13:36:49
Colleen
<selwyn> i have a deck which already comes with such things, though i have not got to them yet
13:39:39
Colleen
<shinmera> No, the grammar is massively simpler, and you have no real rules on how to write it down
13:40:04
Colleen
<|3b|> selwyn: we were taught the "ch" in Ich etc as being a back-of-the-throat sort of sound, while my impression is that even at the time native speakers were just pronouncing it as "sh"
13:40:10
Colleen
<shinmera> Both of which are the hardest parts about German (aside from the gendered nouns thing which we unfortunately still have)
13:41:31
Colleen
<selwyn> i could move to germany for work purposes but i don´t know if i would be happy there partly due to the language issue
13:42:13
Colleen
<|3b|> "how to pronounce stuff" videos on youtube, it's still a lot closer to "sh" than to what we were taught
13:42:19
Colleen
<shinmera> selwyn: fwiw there's lots of english speaking people in Zurich and they don't seem to have a lot of trouble not knowing german.
13:43:38
Colleen
<selwyn> it is more the fact that: if people are going to speak english to me anyway, as i am a foreigner, then how am i meant to immerse myself in the first place
13:44:21
Colleen
<shinmera> you're still going to hear lots of people speaking german in your day to day life
13:44:39
Colleen
<shinmera> and if you really want to go for schooling, there'll be more opportunities for that as well.
13:44:59
Colleen
<shinmera> and people are always more than happy to help you out with their native language lol
13:45:27
Colleen
<selwyn> i attended one of heisig´s petalisp talks online and everyone switched to english once i joined
13:46:24
Colleen
<shinmera> IRL you will encounter people that don't do you taht courtesy though lol
13:50:15
Colleen
<selwyn> i can only report that it is easier to learn, it doesn´t appear to make the speakers more tolerant
13:52:03
Colleen
<|3b|> not that i really care about being able to physically speak any languages these days :p
13:54:41
Colleen
<selwyn> my weakness with learning languages has always been speaking, i suspect because i like to read things instead
13:55:19
Colleen
<shinmera> there's no gender for nouns or verbs, but there is gendered speech and idioms, so some verbs are "reserved" for the speaker of a certain gender.
13:56:54
Colleen
<|3b|> 90% of my motivation for language learning is reading, and most of the rest is anime (relatively low % since i don't actually watch much anime these days)
13:58:20
Colleen
<|3b|> with a few % left for the small chance that i have to interact with someone who doesn't know english (which probably means mexican spanish around here)
14:06:02
Colleen
<shinmera> Okey, part 1 of porting https://github.com/velipso/sndfilter/tree/master/src to libmixed is done. Now got low/high/all/band/etc. filtering in.
14:06:16
Colleen
<shinmera> Probably gonna port the compressor and reverb things in the coming days.
14:23:09
Colleen
<|3b|> at some point i switched to reading more light novels than anime/manga, then to korean light novels, then chinese web novels (all translated obviously, since i don't know any of those well enough to read them myself)