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11:04:00
pjb
RRRRedEye[m]: http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/lisp1.5 http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=summary&p=public/lisp15
11:16:19
pjb
RRRRedEye[m]: here's my snapshot of simh-lisp15 http://www.informatimago.com/~pjb/ftp/lisp/simh-snapshot.tar.bz2
11:24:06
pjb
RRRRedEye[m]: now for the security aspect, the problem is that even "hand-written" code is run on hardware you don't control. Anything running on integrated chips is suspect. Even if you built your computer with discrete components, wouldn't be entirely safe: the transistor package could actually contain a whole computer that could leak information or change the behavior of the transistor, which if positioned in a critical part of the
11:25:45
pjb
RRRRedEye[m]: so you would have to build your own transistors from sand. But then, you'd have to trust the sand you'd get. I guess not trusting God is not an option, but are you sure the sand you get comes from God? That nobody else alien or not, didn't substitute it with some kind of "smart-sand" that would lead to "smart-transistors" that could control your computer?
11:26:53
pjb
RRRRedEye[m]: I guess if you build your computer from transistors from as many different providers and foundry as possible, you could ensure some level of trust.
11:28:26
pjb
So, source transistors (and other components) from half a dozen different countries, and build your own computer, then you can scratch code cons/car/cdr/null and a lisp reader, and up to the stars.
11:35:31
pjb
In that case, use gentoo or debian. And if you have a long week-end, install LFS (LinuxFromScratch) for the fun and learning experience.
11:36:30
Qwnavery
I'm currently using void and I'm pretty comfortable. I love the package manager xbps. I might try LFS someday, maybe in a virtualmachine or on a pi
11:37:21
Qwnavery
I've gone through the process of installing gentoo, but never really used it. My kernel didn't panic on boot so :D
11:38:19
mfiano
Been using LFS myself for a couple decades. Gentoo is for ricers and doesn't compare :)
11:42:01
Qwnavery
I don't have the time right now, but I will definitely move to LFS in the future. It looks really rewarding, thank you both for letting me know if it's existence.
16:23:32
mokulus
Hello, are there any benefits of picking up lisp if I'm not going to write it professionally?
17:29:10
mokulus
wasamasa: which learning resources would you recommend to an intermediate programmer?
17:32:24
mdhughes
So start writing a program and learn as you go. It doesn't have to solve some giant problem.
17:34:50
mdhughes
Literally the way I got back into Scheming was I did some of… the 31 days of December challenge, can't think of the name… and then adapted some old BASIC games until I was at a point where I could make more useful things.
17:39:26
mdhughes
Advent of Code. I had to look up a Bad Santa plot summary to find the goddamned word for the advent calendar Billy Bob eats and refills with crap. And that's what coding is like!
17:39:54
Guest17
mokulus: look up Practical Common Lisp. I used the chapter on binary parsing to inform my own needs in that area and wrote a half assed functional implementation
17:41:15
wasamasa
cannot find anything particularly egregious here: https://github.com/roswell/roswell/tree/master/src
17:41:56
Guest17
If you try translating a c program into common lisp (or any lisp I suppose) keep in mind that while you're learning the 1:1 translation of C to the lisp you chose, lisp provides powerful features for abstraction that you won't necessarily learn by doing a 1:1 translation
18:32:27
pjb
mokulus: 1- the probability that you will use lisp professionally are very low. The best you can hope for, professionally, is to use emacs and emacs lisp to help you in your work, but if you work in macOS, iOS, Android, and a bunch of other environments where there's an advanced IDE to help you, while emacs can still help you, it won't be as convenient as if you can use it 100% of the time.
18:32:59
pjb
mokulus: 2- the benefit of picking up lisp will be mostly personnal! It's way too much fun to program in lisp!
18:33:56
pjb
mokulus: plus, what you will learn by learning lisp and its ecosystem and history, you may be able to use it professionally, but often it will be seen as too advanced for your coworkers…
18:35:52
pjb
mokulus: and for emacs lisp, I'd advise to learn Common Lisp, and then emacs lisp and the emacs library.