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20:47:16
pkal
I already have a declaim with the right settings, but stuff like step debugging doesn't work reliably.
21:01:32
mfiano
pkal: #commonlisp is that way, but, DECLAIM is not specified whether its effects persist across file boundaries. I assume you are aware of this? As for your particular question, if it has a connection to the SWANK server, you will be presented with the debugger when an error condition is signaled, in which you can step from there, evaluate different forms in the context of a particular stack frame,
21:01:34
mfiano
etc. Alternatively, I would highly recommend you to look into SLY, a more featureful alternative to SLIME, particularly the part in the manual about "stickers". With breaking stickers, not only will you get step debugging, but you'll visually be able to see which forms recorded any debugging information for you to inspect, and be able to inspect the full history of those forms' values, visually.
21:03:18
pkal
mfiano: yes, CL. Cross-file issues don't matter to me, since I usually write everything in a single file.
21:03:48
mfiano
You might like the part about stickers in the Sly manual, since I know you love your Emacs :)
21:04:10
pkal
I have tried SLY, but it never caught on, simply because it differs to what I am used to in small but annoying ways, but I haven't understood why it is better. I might take a more serious look at it again at some point.
21:05:46
mfiano
Oh. If you can list those issues the next time you try it, I would be happy to help you resolve them, if they are able to be resolved. Minor look and feel things usually can, but SLY has a bit more in terms of features, and many bug fixes on top of the divergent point.
21:07:25
masinter
i'd be interested in a comparison between SLIME and or SLY vs Medley debugging. ... what did we miss 40 years ago? no single stepping, but you can breakpoint and eval
21:07:59
mfiano
masinter: The only notable thing I can think of are stickers, described in the SLY (not SLIME) manual.
21:07:59
pkal
mfiano: the issues weren't fatal, I think I could solve them myself. AFAIR it was stuff like the windows popping up in different places, where I didn't want to bother finding out what is going on under the hood
21:09:56
mfiano
An alternative to print debugging, where forms are visually marked as "recording", and are able to keep a history of their values for you to cycle through.
21:12:11
mfiano
You can also set a sticker to be "breaking" which, will cause the debugger to be invoked each time the form that is "stickered" is evaluated, with its value in the condition report, etc.
21:16:43
mfiano
Oh, well I guess you can count that as a demo. It's not a real CL debugging experience and doesn't show that feature in combination with its other features for a seamless experience.
21:17:20
mfiano
I will restate that I do not know of any users who recorded a proper debugging experience using SLY
21:22:57
masinter
[12:13] <masinter> us pacific time https://us06web.zoom.us/j/7296707547?pwd=VTJlUjdNa2pIdUJNNnJqRmhtV1dJZz09\
21:26:36
masinter
there's tons of manuals, but lots of people start out with online.interlisp.org and quit when they get the first error
21:28:16
masinter
The advice I got about demos was to record an actual session, and then use that to edit a script
21:30:29
wasamasa
in the end, emacsconf did force me to get over this and surprisingly enough, I managed to record a talk just fine on the first attempt
21:33:19
masinter
i used to be able to talk and type at the same kind, but multitasking is a victim of a kind of old age
21:41:13
masinter
I'm hoping by recording sessions with a friendly audience, I'll have better luck explaining what's going on or being stopped
21:50:03
kagevf
masinter: I think this video shows off stickers with slime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DLdQ6yb7h8