libera/#commonlisp - IRC Chatlog
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11:56:05
splittist
beach: I think so - or "implementation support/internals required". As a first approximation.
12:29:03
jcowan
beach: if you are interested in a simple yet capable structure editor, I recommend taking a good look at Medley Interlisp's S-EDIT
12:29:46
jcowan
it is thoroughly documented (UI and API) in pp. 247-262 of https://interlisp.org/docs/IRM.pdf, the Interlisp Reference Manual
13:16:19
lisp123
My friend of 20 years wanted to learn programming. Naturally I recommend Common Lisp, he's going to use Kotlin instead "lisp doesn't sound practical"
13:18:23
beach
It is very hard to change people with a closed mindset. Carol Dweck has done research in the area.
13:20:49
splittist
to be fair, Kotlin has an object oriented 'Hello world' and co-routines on its homepage. Oh - and a homepage.
13:21:11
_death
Naggum said that Common Lisp is the language you graduate into... most people first need to experience the misery of other languages
13:25:45
_death
then again, the reasons people want to learn programming nowadays may be more.. varied.. than they used to be
13:34:06
lisp123
_death: honestly I never felt _too_ bad in other languages. lisp was a natural move for me after getting used to generics & protocols in Swift
13:50:29
IAmRasputin
At least Kotlin is less likely to put him off programming forever than Jav*, imho
13:51:32
dim
imagine you're new to programming in 2021, what kind of basic UI would you expect? I think web site or mobile app, I don't think terminal based keyboard driven...
13:54:24
splittist
for the junior splittists, programming (or, at least, the motivating type of programming) is about making game-like things happen on a tablet or phone. (Having said which, as the least junior ages, things happening on PCs with keyboards become interesting, too.)
14:01:04
splittist
Having started with Scratch, it's now more Construct and Unity. /I/ enjoyed TIC-80 (:
14:02:48
splittist
_death: I'm sure it's insanely complicated, but if one is motivated, and no-one tells you it's complicated...
15:03:48
jcowan
God help me if I have to do professional programming on a mobile device (unless it has a proper keyboard and screen, which to me removes it from the category "mobile device")
15:18:15
dim
it's not about using the mobile as a dev environment as much as producing an app that fits the mobile, I suppose
15:18:43
dim
though I would like that it would be possible to code an app from the mobile device itself, it would make the mobile device into an actual computer
15:20:26
pve
Hi, does anyone know if there exists an extension to ASDF that would let me compile/load all lisp files in a directory in no particular order? Perhaps as a subclass of "asdf:module".. This is something I might use when doing prototyping or other less serious things (not that anything I do is very serious :)
15:21:10
Bike
if you don't specify :serial t or dependencies for a component, asdf will just do some arbitrary order
15:21:28
Bike
do you want it to generate a component from a directory for you rather than having to write it out?
15:21:48
pve
Bike: I understand, I meant I'm too lazy to go and edit the asd file every time I want to add a file :)
15:24:34
pjb
pve: something like: :components #.(mapcar (lambda (path) `(:file (pathname-name path))) (directory #P"./*.lisp"))
15:28:15
pjb
check whether *load-pathname* is bound when you do asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op or asdf:compile-op (or the new API asdf-load).
15:28:58
pjb
pve: there's also the option of writting a little lisp script to generate a plain asd file.
15:34:59
dim
I though one of the advantages of ASDF would be to avoid the Makefile/autoconf/automake/... situation ;-)
15:35:21
dim
having lisp all the way down including the build system is a very nice property, I believe
17:44:00
pve
one minor issue is that it wont detect newly added files in the directory when I reload the system, because it doesn't think that the system has changed
19:32:31
etimmons
It's not quite ready yet (requires the latest version of ASDF that just got released)
19:33:59
etimmons
You reminded me that I should make sure it detects newly added files... Can't remember if I already handled that or not
20:51:24
pve
etimmons: Thanks for the link. I took a quick glance, but wasn't able to determine exactly how it handles directories. I'll look closer tomorrow.