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19:07:15
piethesailor
Still getting a match error. I need to check if I have wayland on here and if so, how do I rid myself of it
19:23:56
piethesailor
I suppose all linux distros moved to wayland in some form or fashion.. Nilby: what are you doing to run pure Xorg?
19:30:24
Nilby
piethesailor: I run a very weird environment without things like wayland, systemd, desktop env, etc. If you want to test, you can probably just run Xorg by hand.
19:32:44
Nilby
piethesailor: I don't use arch, but the arch wiki https://wiki.archlinux.org/ has good information for doing everything by hand.
19:35:38
piethesailor
Hmm. is there at least a way to force X11 to be the only renderer? Like if I just delete the $WAYLAND_DISPLAY vaiable or something?
19:36:50
piethesailor
Maybe that will break something? I only use emacs and ... well chrome for some cl-selenium webscrapping. I suppose things could break there
19:44:09
Nilby
The problem is getting at the root window contents is probably disallowed with x11, no matter what. Also running under WSL it proably runs X11 in "rootless" mode. You'd have to change the startup scripts to run Xorg instead of wayland + xwayland. I've never run WSL so I don't know if it supports it. One thing you could try is tesing a VM booted on a non-wayland linux distro.
20:19:23
piethesailor
Whats a good non-wayland distro? A google search only shows distros that have defaulted to wayland
20:19:47
piethesailor
I know I could build arch without wayland, but i'd like to avoid the arch route if possible
20:27:33
Nilby
Unless you enjoy that sort of thing I would just run-program a screenshot program that works on wayland.
20:27:37
gilberth
piethesailor: Usually with the login screen once you chose the user there is a cog wheel at the lower right which allows you to chose between Wayland and no Wayland. I just fired up my Ubuntu 20 and it still has that. And indeed, when I chose Wayland, xwd too catches this BadMatch error we where talking about. When I chose not to use Wayland that is fine again.
20:29:05
gilberth
Otherwise, I am a Debian user without a desktop environment, when I use Linux. I have that Ubuntu there only for testing purposes.
21:21:01
aeth
does it matter if a distro defaults to Wayland or not? As long as Wayland-on-Nvidia is buggy and as long as Nvidia GPUs are so popular, then they'll still have to support X
21:21:47
aeth
in Fedora, for KDE you can select Wayland or X11 version. And most non-KDE/non-GNOME WMs/DEs are probably still X-only
4:43:22
edgar-rft
zest: if it's self-contained you dont necessarily need quicklisp, but you could go *both* ways to increase the potential user base
4:45:22
beach
I think a decision like that depends on many things like the quality of the existing library, and the requirements of the client. To minimize maintenance, it is usually best to reuse existing code. But there are cases where the client can't (or won't) use an existing library in addition to yours.
4:49:44
beach
And it depends on the size of the existing library. For a small one, you can include similar code in your own library. But if the existing library is large, you may take on a lot of maintenance burden if you duplicate that functionality.
4:51:57
zest
beach: For something as replicatable as pattern matching, guess I'll roll with using cond for now and I'll sacrifice the eye candy.
4:52:42
zest
do you guys think there is a way to see what is a form of a function? I know 'describe describes data in general but is there smth that could make look at the actual definition of a function...
4:53:40
beach
I am going to be criticized for this, but here goes: If there were a way to do that for every function, then there would be no commercial Common Lisp vendors.
4:54:15
beach
So FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION is allowed to fail. This is also good because you can't get the lambda expression of a closure, nor of a generic function.
4:55:28
zest
beach: so i am guessing it doesn't work on all implementations... ah, well, good enough I just wanna examine some library functions without going to a directory and reading the src file
5:30:06
beach
zest: In one of my good talks to industry, I estimate the time saved by using a new tool vs the time it takes to learn it. The results are usually staggering, like a factor of 100 or so in favor of learning the new one.
5:30:52
beach
zest: Even just using Emacs abbrevs when I write email is a significant time saver, but some people here would dispute that, as usual.
5:33:11
beach
Unfortunately, as I explain in one of my essays, our brains are not good with such estimates, so we often make the wrong decisions. But as programmers, I think it is our duty is to set aside our immediate responses and do the math.
5:33:39
zest
beach: i saw one video named "play emacs as an instrument" and the person who did had such so much internal knowledge of emacs it was ridicolous
5:34:07
zest
among the things he did was he opened a file server in an SSH connection to his local host through eshell
5:34:11
beach
And, as I explain in my talk, a project leader that can't convince the programmers to use the right tools, should get rid of those programmers.
5:36:42
zest
beach: it adds up to overall productivity... i feel that today's tools are much less configurable than the older tools
5:39:53
zest
like forget about code editors for a second, even stuff like windows managers can just boost productivity
5:55:02
Guest86
jackdaniel Try to learn to give smart answers yourself before judging other's questions. This is a shame for CLIM maintainer though https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3816#3816 is good enough to judge ....
6:02:55
jackdaniel
yay, one more point towards the asshole of the year award, keep fingers crossed for me everybody
6:09:45
hefner_
tbf I can't figure out where you'd add that keyword either, although the title pane seems obviously wrong
6:11:21
jackdaniel
not that we implement the behavior, but open-window-stream should not error /with/ this keyword
6:16:25
jackdaniel
(and it is about the text cursor, not the pointer cursor, so in this sense it is off by default)
6:28:47
Guest80
beach you can change :initarg :medium to :initarg :doc-title with no change in code behavior.