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0:37:20
yitzi
There are commits from Rettig from at least 2016 in the Franz github repo. Some from last year also, although those are coauthored.
0:38:33
yitzi
Lots of other examples, but here is one https://github.com/franzinc/loop/commits/master
2:03:49
masinter
i never liked the MAP functions, you had to add all of this (FUNCTION (LAMBDA (X) ... around the meat of what you were doing, which wa an iteration. And if the iteration used variables outside the scope of the function, you had to prove that you didn't have to make a thunk. I'd get rid of MAPxxxx and tell people just use loop.
2:17:51
bjorkintosh
I bet it's because lisp is so malleable, that instead of attracting obedient users who accepted things as they are, it attracted followers who all made attempts to mold it in their own image.
2:25:11
mariari
MAPCAR is a nice function. and MAPCAN, is basically the monadic bind function. it has a weird mutation that makes it subotpimal in some scenarios but overall I'd much rather use it than LOOP
2:25:31
mariari
MAPCAR is quite limited, where as a LOOP can do a lot, thus I don't have to read MAPCAR, if I see it, I have a rough idea on the control flow
2:26:37
masinter
i tell people that my greatest contribution to the Common Lisp standard was inventing the form you had to fill out to get a change to the language passed in the cleanup committee
2:27:31
masinter
where you had to list the problem you were solving without making reference to your solution
2:27:50
masinter
and for every solution you had to list the costs & benefits to users and implementations
2:28:49
masinter
well, it was hard to get moon and fahlman and me to agree to anything, but i got people to agree that the form was filled out correctly
2:29:53
masinter
and it avoided the situation where the problem was serious but the proposed solution sucked
2:49:15
masinter
what I learned from working in the IETF and W3C was that agreement wasn't enough, you had to have compatibility. Although WHATWG took it too far (IMHO)
3:14:40
copec
I like that both LOOP and MAP are in CL and that you can use the one that makes sense for the situation.
3:19:49
masinter
in the middle of writing a FOR you need a WHEN ... that you hadn't thought of, you'd have to go back and change the MAP function
3:20:10
beach
masinter: Perhaps you can answer the question we had a few days ago. The grammar for LOOP does not allow for termination clauses anywhere, but there is a passage in the text that says it is allowed. Which one is right?
3:23:02
masinter
i kept the fanfold paper but i donated all of my lisp stuff to the computer history museum because ... lisp was dead i thought
4:06:13
jeosol
masinter: thanks for sharing the last link. Are you following any of recent results from deep-learning paradigms? What happened to the gofai techniques of the early 80s(?)