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14:08:31
pjb
Symbols cannot be interned in several packages, since INTERN takes a string, not a symbol. A symbol can be imported in several packages, making it present in those packages, even if they're not his home package. (Of course, if the symbol didn't have a home package, the first import will "intern" it in the package).
14:09:12
phoe
pjb: interned adj. Trad. 1. (of a symbol) accessible[3] in any package. 2. (of a symbol in a specific package) present in that package.
14:09:27
phoe
because the first definition of interned is too broad and the second definition is also too broad
15:08:55
ldb
Someone from mastodon says it would be nice to have an search interface to dpANS items. https://emacs.ch/@louis/109738285416858235
15:12:47
ldb
haha, I only use the index page in hypespec for finding things. Don't like do everything from emacs.
15:15:09
ldb
anyway, I think I can make "machine readable" version for dpANS when I have free time, probably in XML, so people want a web search interface or new hyperlinked PDF version can do whatever they want.
16:00:18
louis77
ldb: I started to compile "my own" Hyper spec index as a learning exercise and realized how great it would be to have the ability to group/sort the functions, declarations and variables by category/data type
16:08:20
beach
And how would you be able to list all declarations. There is an infinite number possible.
16:09:02
beach
And that is probably why I don't understand what it is you plan to list that is related to declarations.
16:13:40
jackdaniel
as beach pointed out there is an infinite number of possible declarations, because you may put anything as a name
16:14:16
louis77
Well then I guess the HyperSpec is imprecise: "A type declaration is valid in all declarations."
16:14:19
jackdaniel
perhaps what you mean is something what we could call a declaration template where arguments are some stand-in meaningless symbols or other markers
16:14:58
jackdaniel
and right you are, entries for particular declaration identifiers list them as a declaration
16:17:21
louis77
anyway, I appreciate your passion for parsing out all the different overloads, but regarding my post I still think there is room for a more accessible HyperSpec _index_.
16:18:50
louis77
Bc. there _are_, as improbable that may sound, devs who are new to Common Lisp and the HyperSpec can be overwhelming for beginners.
16:19:53
ldb
louis77: have you used Dash (the searchable documentation set for programming languages)
16:20:24
Nilby
the master index and the glossary are fairly good, but they aren't well laid out in html because people in the old days were concerned about pages being too big
16:21:08
louis77
for example, all functions that have anything to do with STRING and if they are destructive or not
16:21:27
louis77
for every function a very short description so that I can quickly decide the possible candidate for my problem
16:22:38
louis77
in an academic background people may be used to spend 90% of the time reading and memorizing the hyperspec, but - let's say - as a hobbyist (using Lispworks license edition terms) - I would rather be productive sooner than later to get some sense of success.
16:23:11
ldb
for "a very short description" for every functions There is quick ref http://clqr.boundp.org
16:23:52
jackdaniel
I don't think that you need to justify what you are doing, some people here will agree with you and some won't
16:25:03
louis77
jackdaniel: as I said, it was more an exercise for my own journey, because I feel frustrated when I have to lookup hyperspec for every link of code I write and I have a very bad memory.
16:25:26
jackdaniel
well, common lisp standard is a standard, I wouldn't call it a handy reference manual
16:25:40
jackdaniel
but the same thing may be said about c standard and alike, it is just a different kind of document
16:26:21
jackdaniel
l1sp.org links also 'practical common lisp' chapter for symbols that are mentioned there, that would be more ekhm practical :)
16:27:32
jackdaniel
using scymtym's parser and pretty printing in a format of your choice would be probably much easier than writing incomplete and bug-ridden tex parser
16:28:19
louis77
by the time I would be finished with my manual solution I probably don't need it any more but that is a gain in itself :-)
16:28:57
_death
you can also use something like https://github.com/gigamonkey/manifest (I have an old fork) which is not limited to standard CL symbols.. adding full-text search shouldn't be a big deal
16:29:59
louis77
In CL world there are so many great books that either teach entry level programming with Common Lisp (PCL) or are an overview of Common Lisp without the trillions of delicacies you will confront when you write actual production code
16:31:15
pjb
louis77: in the hyperspec, you already have a dictionary per category aka chapter with a ToC for each.
16:31:23
louis77
There is a clear gap in literature that targets programmers with experience in conventional languages which are used to modern toolkits, assistive IDEs and good documentation.
16:31:37
beach
louis77: We do need a language reference, though. Probably in the form of a website. So if you want to start something like that, I would be happy to contribute.
16:33:15
pjb
louis77: but you're right the hyperspec is a specification/reference mostly for implementers. For newbie, it's harsh, and better tutorials exist.
16:34:59
louis77
so that you guys slate me for substituting "declaration identifiers" with "declarations" ? :-)
16:35:00
pjb
louis77: functions about string: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_string.htm but you also have to know that strings are vectors and sequence, so http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_sequen.htm and some of http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_arrays.htm also apply.
16:36:34
ldb
ACTION don't think there is even one existing book that teaches XSLT3.0 (and the upcoming 4.0), lol.
17:07:48
kagevf
louis77: you might also want to check out this one: https://jtra.cz/stuff/lisp/sclr/index.html ... it has functions grouped by things like "math" "conses" "sequences (including strings)" and so on
21:01:03
NotThatRPG
pve: Yes, but isn't it the case that you only get a command and a single argument in a shebang script?
21:03:44
pve
NotThatRPG: I think "/usr/bin/env -S sbcl --dynamic-space-size 1000 --script" might work, not sure though
21:25:51
NotThatRPG
pve: that didn't work for me -- I get a bash error saying /usr/bin/env: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
21:57:36
NotThatRPG
yitzi: The problem is that the server that is running SBCL is so ancient that it's /usr/bin/env doesn't accept the -S option! :-(
1:48:14
ldb
well, I decides to not use the dpans-parser for the job, but make my own TeX parser. I can see how that works but I think I would need write too much code to just output XML.