libera/#commonlisp - IRC Chatlog
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18:48:27
pjb
Josh_2: too bad he doesn't have a persistent nick, we will have to re-explain everything!
19:03:50
Guest74
pjb: all the guest nicks are persistent. Now if you explained anything to any guest accounts recently then maybe whatever is logging the channel is getting kicked as often as I am.
19:09:12
pjb
Perhaps with a real nick you wouldn't get kicked so often? Or at least, you could still be you.
19:10:09
Bike
you're not getting kicked. your client apparently sucks and is not responding to pings, so libera drops you.
19:19:29
Bike
the channel is being logged fine. pjb is merely referring to the inconvenience of your weird refusal to get an actual name.
19:22:08
Guest74
just cant be bothered when this thing remembers me perfectly. What's weird is how much it bothers some people.
19:23:01
Bike
i don't think it bothers anybody very much. it bothers many people a bit, in the same way that going through the effort to take thirty seconds to configure your client is too bothersome for you.
19:24:50
Bike
it's not a big deal or anything. just one of those weird little personal quirks that make talking to people online just a little more annoying for everyone.
19:25:56
Guest74
hey, i find it annoying that people don't use their real names as their nicks, but I don't go around complaining to everybody.
19:27:17
Guest74
sure, I'm named with a consistent identifier as well as peoples whose nicks have nothing to do with their names..
19:27:28
mfiano
I think they are just looking for attention. When we set +R during a flood they might reconsider.
19:28:32
yitzi
Guest74: When a plurality of the residents of this channel tell you that they find it irritating that you won't pick a nickname and you respond that you "just cant be bothered" that is a direct statement of how much you value their opinions/irritation.
19:29:37
Bike
because it would be so little effort on your part. easier than arguing about it, even. so your stated reason for refusal is just that you don't mind us being annoyed.
19:29:54
rotateq
and I see a nickname as a nice opportunity to express something about what drives one inside :)
19:30:04
Guest74
They want me to research and install a client, configure it, register a nick somewhere somehow, all so that they wont be bother by seeing the exact same consistent nick over and over again.
19:30:23
Bike
no, i want you to use your web client to pick a name. they pretty much all do that. web.libera.chat does.
19:31:04
Bike
because you entered it once and it stuck with that. if you entered something else it would stick with something else.
19:31:34
mfiano
It won't stick with that if you leave and the nick generator assigns that name to someone else.
19:31:39
Bike
it even lets you hook in your nickserv registration and you won't need to remember your password or anything.
19:31:39
Guest74
ffs, I'm really tired of the whole, oh you're so inconsiderate because you don't do things the way we do things and we'll judge you from that standpoint without even giving a thought to your point of view.
19:32:06
Bike
your point of view is that you don't care about our annoyance because you don't want to take thirty seconds to configure your client. i have considered your viewpoint and do not consider it worthwhile.
19:33:41
Bike
my least favorite part of being a moderator is when someone is a little bit of an asshole, but not enough that i feel justified in kicking them immediately.
19:35:36
mfiano
yitzi: The IRC server chooses a random guest name if one is not selected that is not already assigned.
19:38:30
yitzi
mfiano: Thanks. Seems a bit odd that the system permits reuse of the same handles. Probably b.c. the idea that someone would want to keep the same guest handle is bizarre.
19:38:31
Bike
oh, if you're asking whether i feel justified kicking guest74, still not really. they just ragequit, i guess.
20:09:16
contrapunctus
I keep forgetting I've been told to not use emoji here. Used them twice today itself.
20:11:05
rotateq
Josh_2: something wents wrong when i try loading that package since i updated to emacs 28, but hey
23:14:57
seok
damn, mfiano-utils is too advanced for me. It's just giving me more lisp books to read
2:10:55
jeosol
Good morning all! Been a while since I have been here. Hope everyone is doing well ...
3:26:43
beach
jeosol: I think phoe is taking some time off, but if there is a suggested presentation for the online Lisp meeting, I suspect he would be willing to organize it.
3:33:23
jeosol
but schedule has dropped for a few months - was just busy with some other non-CL stuff.
3:34:11
jeosol
Though software is never finished, my project is done for a few months now, I usually make small changes, and upgrade SBCL compilers at month end and fix any issues that crop up
3:35:29
jeosol
beach: thanks beach, you and the lispers here were helpful in that regard especially resolving issues with threads, CLOS, and macros
3:36:15
jeosol
I am looking to deploy the workers which are essentially CL repls. I tried docker, other's have proposed kubernetes which I hear has a high learning schedule but has benefits of auto-scaling up and down (I am a noob)
3:36:46
jeosol
I just wanted to test it by putting a worker and try to load it. I can run things on a small box and it holds well.
3:37:32
jeosol
I don't think people appreciate CL enough: so many aspects to love from developer productivity, CLOS, ..., to great performance on number crunching application
3:38:16
jeosol
but I still get people say Lisp? what is that? and why I use emacs. I have since learned not to engage anymore - can't lose brain cells to this type of arguments
3:49:45
beach
jeosol: Yes, I stopped engaging a long time ago. The only way to try to convince (some) people is to show good work.
3:50:35
beach
jeosol: SICL is making progress, but very slow progress right now. It's just a matter of lack of inspiration. I am not working on anything else very actively right now.
3:51:54
jeosol
beach: I agree, engaging in that discussion is frustrating - so I took advice from the likes of you and others. I can't be trying to convince someone who doesn't understand what I am doing. They say why I don't use python like others , lol
3:53:01
beach
One silver lining is that the people who come here are usually more open minded than the ones you are referring to.
3:53:09
jeosol
Josh_2: my project is something that will be really had to describe as it does a lot of things: Optimization, Machine Learning (limited, but can call scikit-learn libraries via exernal Python scripts, Physics Simulation, ...)
3:53:38
jeosol
seok: haha, I know. Some of the applications don't make sense to even use Python, I mean the latter has it's place
3:54:46
jeosol
beach: You mean lack of inspiration -- hopefully it can come back. I know how that is
3:55:42
Josh_2
I have been slowly chipping at some very boring code, almost done and can go work on something I started a while ago but had to put to one side
3:55:58
Josh_2
Its nice to work on newer projects where there is a lot more freedom in design, thats the fun part imo
3:56:24
jeosol
seok: many people use Python, either for DS/ML/AI work so it's common with many new developers.
3:57:06
jeosol
Josh_2: I agree, I work on different parts of my application depending on how I feel, some parts are bad to work in due to poor initial design - sometimes, I just bite the bullet and go through a day of refactoring work
3:57:15
seok
yeah, python is good when there are prebuilt libraries written in C or something that python is calling from
3:58:19
jeosol
seok: I think that's for most of the ML work, numpy, jax and tensorflow having underlying C or C++ implementation
3:59:29
seok
Deep learing is great for a lot of things but I think it's a bit too overcrowded. I don't like doing things others are doing
4:00:40
beach
jeosol: I am still working on bootstrapping with the goal of creating an executable file, but there are tons of minor things that have to be taken care of as well.
4:00:42
jeosol
seok: haha, that's funny - the different frameworks and architectures that come out everyday makes the area like a joke now. Everyone and their mother is open sourcing language models every day
4:01:56
jeosol
beach: my short coming is that I am not a compiler guy (my usual excuse) but recently finished the algorithms course so I write use appropriate data structures, write better and efficient code
4:02:57
jeosol
it's almost like the space is not much science any more, tweak this, tweak that, get 0.1 % accuracy with massive GPUs (millions of dollars compute time) and then declare victory
4:03:04
seok
I am learning linguistics slowly because I want to try developing a non-nn language parser and meaning representation someday
4:03:44
beach
jeosol: No excuse needed. It's just a matter of taking the time to read the literature. But one has to have the time and the interest in the subject, of course.
4:03:48
jeosol
someone must be working with AI here using CL. I remember a company, mind.ai said they were developing a chat bot using CL NLP
4:05:47
jeosol
beach: I agree with that. I probably be a better coder if try to get deeper on implementation side. Remember when hayley implemented some hash lib (?) in the past - I was reading about hashing and methods to avoid collisions etc
4:11:30
jeosol
seok: I don't have much NLP experience but I got an old CL book on Natural Language Process in Lisp by Gerald Gazdar and Chris Mellish
4:13:07
seok
Well if you know a book like that, I bet you are more knowledgeable than I am in the area
4:14:07
jeosol
Oh no, I just got it out of the shelf now to look at the name and authors. I have not worked with it at all. It was something I am interested in and saw on ebay
4:18:44
seok
I think it requires quite a bit of linguistic knowledge as well if you want to deal with human languages
4:19:21
jeosol
that is true. My initial focus was developing an expert system if I can capture known and use that to call my CL code to do evaluations
4:20:02
jeosol
but I will settle for a proof of concept by using Python as a front stack, and call CL
4:20:51
jeosol
It's more like, medical diagnosis tools in the 80's. Where you go with rules, if this, then that, if that, then this. .. from facts to conclusions
4:22:06
jeosol
well, I just want to use simple prompts. Please tell me input for X, I capture it, ... like that
4:23:42
jeosol
I think it's easy that way. no backtracking to catch errors. If users give a string intead of an int, agent should now and ask for better input. This is probably easy to do with some loop I guess
4:24:47
jeosol
For example, I can say: "evaluate the square of 2" and I should be able to parse it for the function and argument to the function