libera/#commonlisp - IRC Chatlog
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14:41:28
dbotton
My first paid for program was 40 years ago. A program for the psych department of Nova university (south Florida us) running on trs-80s attached to a cables so could load the app to many machines from the same tape recorder
15:02:14
pjb
dbotton: nice. Mine was a program in basic on TO7 to drive some lights on an advertizing panel for some conserve can manufacturer.
18:11:35
jcowan
It probably can't cope with VNC. Safari also has problems, but Chrome/Firefox/Edge all work fine
18:13:00
opalvaults[m]
This is very neat. I had no idea what I was signing up for lol. This reminds me of the OpenBSD default WM
18:17:36
opalvaults[m]
https://interlisp.org/docs/20211015-interlisp-book-2.pdf -- looks like this is the docs for anyone interested in tinkering
18:18:58
jcowan
Volume 1 is https://interlisp.org/docs/1986-Interlisp-language-book-1.pdf; it's about the language itself.
18:24:04
opalvaults[m]
for instance man window gets you information about interaction with the windows manager, etc.
18:25:11
Catie
Embarassingly, I didn't even think to run "man". I figured Interlisp had some other mnemonic
18:30:41
Catie
I think it's interesting how much older GUI systems used the right mouse button. We've kind of settled on using left click for most things, but for example scrolling up on the scroll bar is done with a right click. A lot has changed
18:30:42
opalvaults[m]
for instance I can define a function that evaluates as soon as it recognizes the last paren.
18:31:36
opalvaults[m]
oh! It might be. I was under the impression that Xerox CL Exec meant that it was an offshoot of CL
18:33:25
opalvaults[m]
There was another WM that allowed you to create windows very similarly to how this Interlisp VM does and I can't for the life of me remember it.
18:33:30
jcowan
It just means you are in the CL readtable and the XCL user package. There is no law that says `read` has to wait foor a newline.
18:34:03
opalvaults[m]
It's actually kind of interesting how much of this technology we still use and take for granted today! This is actually really great. Reminds me a bit of windowmaker on GNU/Linux.
18:34:41
opalvaults[m]
Are there any (aside from GUIX) operating systems being currently developed in Lisp?
18:35:19
Catie
I think that's largely the work of one person though, and I haven't seen an update from her in a while (please correct me if I'm wrong)
18:38:40
jcowan
Both Interlisp and Genera show their origins on the bare metal, and rewriting maiko for bare metal would certainly be possible
18:45:38
jcowan
Both systems (also MIT Scheme) were born on programmable-microcode shipe. Even now Interlisp has no native compiler.
18:51:34
jcowan
Spoons; https://www.healthline.com/health/spoon-theory-chronic-illness-explained-like-never-before
18:55:15
jcowan
Which is also why we don't have Medley working natively on Windows, only through WSL.
18:56:43
jcowan
We do have an SDL back end, though, so eventually there may be a native Windows build without X
19:17:28
lisp123
I read somewhere that LW was better than SBCL for CLOS-related matters, which this (old) set of benchmarks seems to support http://zeniv.linux.org.uk/~ober/clb/
19:30:23
rotateq
lisp123: when you look at the Franz Inc website "Allegro Common Lisp is the most powerful dynamic object-oriented development system available today, and ..."
19:32:37
lisp123
rotateq: ACL looks nice, but currently only looking at LW for its ability to create ObjC shared libraries
19:35:14
nij-
A naive question on how CFFI is designed: when I call C within CL, does my code get translated into C-code, passed to C, evaluated there, output passed back, and transformed to a CL data type?
19:37:41
opalvaults[m]
boring troubleshooting topic, I'm trying to have Nyxt browser load Quicklisp. I have quicklisp added to my .sbclrc file, and a ~/quicklisp directory exists, yet I'm unable to get Nyxt to (ql:quickload 'slynk). Any suggestions?
19:38:21
opalvaults[m]
I get WARN - Warning: Error on separate thread: Package QL does not exist. Stream: #
19:39:11
lisp123
opalvaults[m]: Might be a question for the developers directly, but you can try first making sure. you do all the steps here: https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/
19:40:46
opalvaults[m]
I tried there but the one person helping me had to go. I was thinking its more a me and CL issue than with #nyxt directly.
19:40:55
nij-
opalvaults[m]: By running your CL implementation from the terminal (e.g. `$ sbcl`), does QL get loaded (try `ql:quickload 'slynk'`)?
19:41:30
rotateq
nij-: there's a wonderful 2h video by baggers about it from which i learned a bit more in the summer
19:42:33
lisp123
opalvaults[m]: You can try and see if QL works from a Lisp implementation like SBCL, if so, then perhaps the issue is the nyxt config, if not, then the issue is around QL config (but the link I gave you is pretty much perfect in setting up QL, hence I shared it)
19:43:33
lisp123
I would raise it with them and see if there is a way they can bundle QL going forward
19:44:52
opalvaults[m]
It was suggested by another user that I load slynk in order to call functions for nyxt inside of Emacs
19:47:23
opalvaults[m]
I think you're right, I'll ask aartaka in #nyxt. Thanks for helping me troubleshoot that!
19:47:57
etimmons
It's highly unlikely nyxt (or any CL application, really) will load your user unit files
19:49:27
nij-
Or maybe.. if you get nyxt from a package manager, it might pull down another configured CL implementation that doesn't read your config..
19:51:38
opalvaults[m]
nij-: there are some good examples in the packages repo if you need examples fwiw. that's how I've packaged
19:53:48
etimmons
opalvaults: yes, even if it uses SBCL. Files like .sbclrc are typically written for dev use. Applications may provide their own way to to user init, but loading .sbclrc is almost certainly the wrong thing to do and has a high chance of causing weird bugs if folks have an esoteric init
19:54:59
opalvaults[m]
that's a good point erc. I'll add the ql package init to the nyxt/init.lisp. I believe that's teh way you have to do it in StumpWM as well