libera/#commonlisp - IRC Chatlog

0:58:20 bitmapper great

0:58:21 bitmapper i literally cannot use the free version of lispworks/allegro cl because of macos catalina

2:28:21 pfdietz I wonder if there should be a :standard-package-nicknames option, and a :use-standard-nicknames. The former attacjes a standard PLN to a package; the latter says use that package's standard PLNs as PLNs for it in this package.

2:28:56 pfdietz If the standard PLNs ever collide in another package, the user can manually define different ones.

2:29:38 pfdietz I really should get to sleep. ELS is soon.

3:10:21 slyrus_ Oladon: hey

3:29:40 beach Good morning everyone!

4:45:30 MerlinTheWizard Hey, so there should probably be a list of lisp resources in the channel banner.

4:45:56 MerlinTheWizard And I'll put in my vote for the Common Lisp Quick Reference: http://clqr.boundp.org/

4:46:24 MerlinTheWizard It's beautifully laid out and designed for printing or reading on your computer.

4:47:53 verisimilitude You can specialize a method on those array specializations required, Oladon, such as BIT-VECTOR and STRING, but anything else is nonportable or bothersome.

4:50:05 p_l MerlinTheWizard: due to how big the channel topic gets, I think I'd rather make a link to a minimal site listing such things, preferably one general to #lisp itself

4:50:51 verisimilitude I've such a resource, but it's only intended for my Lisp group.

4:51:39 MerlinTheWizard p_l, could you do that?

4:53:36 MerlinTheWizard It seems common lisp is probably not getting as many users as it could be because information about the language just seems to be scattered around the internet mostly. A lot of the bigger "hubs' and "authorities" are weirdly formatted, ancient looking sites.

4:54:19 verisimilitude Why would the number of people using Common Lisp be an issue?

4:56:46 MerlinTheWizard verisimilitude, with more users comes more resources for people wanting to use the language... I'm a new CL user and I need resources. CLHS is unfortunately proprietary and weirdly formatted. More users means CL will have more life on the internet and better support.

4:57:17 verisimilitude I can read the CLHS in most any WWW browser ever made, so it's nice.

4:57:31 no-defun-allowed I think having information being "scattered" is a good thing; in the sense that having fewer coherent outlets would require having fewer outlooks on the language and how to use it.

4:58:07 verisimilitude I agree with no-defun-allowed; I usually ignore this channel, because I dislike Freenode and have my own entirely separate Lisp venues, as an example.

4:58:32 MerlinTheWizard no-defun-allowed I would call that a non-sequitur. My use of "scattered" here means "disconnected", not "decentralized".

4:59:02 no-defun-allowed In the vain of http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/, it is also quite easy to make the CLHS look pretty nice with a few lines of CSS.

4:59:03 MerlinTheWizard verisimilitude, you are preferring "private" to "public". I like "public" better.

4:59:33 MerlinTheWizard no-defun-allowed, can you put it all on a single page with a little CSS?

4:59:34 verisimilitude I like that Common Lisp is a standardized language without ``official'' resources.

5:00:06 verisimilitude This channel is no more legitimate than my main IRC channel on a different network, and I like that.

5:00:14 MerlinTheWizard No, it has official resources, who will sell you a badly scanned printout of the standard for $30.

5:00:28 verisimilitude The standard document is clearly excluded.

5:00:49 verisimilitude The opposite is garbage such as Rust where there's an official ``subreddit'' or whatever.

5:00:53 MerlinTheWizard CLHS is based on the standard.

5:01:03 no-defun-allowed A single page? Not easily, the CLHS is 2,300 hyperlinked documents, which was quite impressive when it was released.

5:01:28 MerlinTheWizard no-defun-allowed, that's my main issue with it.

5:01:53 verisimilitude I've a copy of ``ANSI Common Lisp'' I use as a reference at times.

5:01:56 no-defun-allowed Yes, the standard costs money to access because it's a proper ANSI standard and all, and the CLHS is equivalent to the standard from what I have heard.

5:02:55 MerlinTheWizard verisimilitude, the presence of one "authority" doesn't exclude the presence of any others: https://nlp.stanford.edu/IR-book/html/htmledition/hubs-and-authorities-1.html

5:02:57 no-defun-allowed "M-x hyperspec-lookup RET cons" is probably the easiest way to search that document.

5:03:23 verisimilitude Sure, MerlinTheWizard, but it does lessen the legitimacy of any others.

5:03:29 MerlinTheWizard Nope

5:03:33 MerlinTheWizard That's illogical

5:03:54 verisimilitude I could be ostracized here, and I wouldn't even care; in other languages, being ostracized is effectively a ``death-sentence''.

5:04:34 MerlinTheWizard Ostracism has little to do with the connectivity properties of a network of information sources.

5:04:56 no-defun-allowed If one service is more popular than the other, it will attract more users just by being more popular. Not that you use e-mail these days, but how much mail do you get from people that isn't from their ISP's email server or from gmail?

5:04:58 verisimilitude We may not be understanding each other, perhaps.

5:05:20 p_l I see silly political discussion centered about not doing things, where people talk past each other on completely unrelated topics that don't actually conflict

5:05:23 verisimilitude Most of my mail doesn't come from gmail, once I delete the spam, almost all of which comes from gmail.

5:06:31 MerlinTheWizard "authority" just means a good source of information as presented in the linked webpage. One good source of information does not cancel out another.

5:06:45 MerlinTheWizard So, yeah. We're talking past each other.

5:07:10 beach MerlinTheWizard: There are many theories about why Common Lisp is not as popular as some might want it to be. But I can assure you that having information that is less scattered will not have any significant impact on the popularity of the language.

5:07:16 no-defun-allowed (And, well, our ISP's email server is horrible as it has tiny quotas, has a mediocre spam filter, and accepts mail from phony email addresses. Someone told the users of that "Here's your email!!" and they didn't bother to look for anything better.)

5:07:29 verisimilitude Whatever; back to the beginning, Common Lisp being popular or not isn't going to have much of an impact, especially if most new people just want to write libraries that are actually C libraries or other such things.

5:08:07 no-defun-allowed (In that sense, if we assert one platform to be "the" platform, then people are not going to look at alternatives, regardless of quality.)

5:08:30 MerlinTheWizard beach, I don't know about that. If people go to the irc channel on freenode because they were looking for good info on CL, and they find one or more solid links right off the bat, it makes them more likely to use the language.

5:08:48 MerlinTheWizard no-defun-allowed, different people are different.

5:09:35 no-defun-allowed How does one find #lisp without looking for information on Lisp? I suppose it's possible you could guess the name, but it's not likely.

5:09:57 verisimilitude Perhaps the user wants a channel for speach impediments.

5:10:14 MerlinTheWizard My point exactly. If you came here, you were probably looking for something.

5:10:23 beach MerlinTheWizard: I seriously doubt it would have any significant impact. There are some very strong psychological forces at play that prevent people from using Common Lisp.

5:10:51 verisimilitude Why did you start learning CL, MerlinTheWizard?

5:11:04 no-defun-allowed I don't think "if you came here, then you were looking for something" and "if you were looking for something, then you came here" are the same.

5:11:21 MerlinTheWizard I'm interested in functional programming and I want a language that let's me do just about anything.]

5:11:38 beach MerlinTheWizard: Well, Common Lisp is not a functional programming language in that sense.

5:12:01 no-defun-allowed ACTION gets back to making a lightning talk presentation.

5:12:04 beach MerlinTheWizard: It is a multi-paradigm language. In particular, it has excellent support for object-oriented programming.

5:12:09 MerlinTheWizard no-defun-allowed, most IRC channels that I've frequented were not "leaf nodes" in that sense. They had useful resources available.

5:12:23 saturn2 is cliki.net "weirdly formatted and ancient looking"?

5:12:30 p_l cliki is mostly dead

5:12:34 p_l that's bigger problem

5:12:35 MerlinTheWizard I'm not that interested in the OO aspect.

5:12:48 MerlinTheWizard ^

5:12:53 beach MerlinTheWizard: If you are interested in functional programming, then something like Haskell or Clojure might be better for you.

5:13:04 MerlinTheWizard I'll check out haskell later.

5:13:07 verisimilitude Well, cliki doesn't ask for my email or other information to make changes, display advertisements, and I presume it's not trying to track me, so it's outdated, yes.

5:13:15 no-defun-allowed verisimilitude: Heh.

5:13:43 saturn2 it doesn't use bootstrap.js or material design so it must be bad

5:13:59 no-defun-allowed I'm not good at writing long texts, but apparently I struggle to write short texts too. Fun stuff.

5:14:33 verisimilitude Try doing something else until inspiration strikes you, no-defun-allowed; would you like some more in-depth writing advice from me?

5:14:50 p_l saturn2: the issue is the content, not everything else

5:15:25 no-defun-allowed Thanks, but there isn't really time. I'm almost done though.

5:15:40 verisimilitude Alright.

5:15:41 MerlinTheWizard Yeah, I like the cliki layout just fine. But the web of CL content should be larger, more well connected, more up to date, and less proprietary.

5:15:42 saturn2 p_l: what do you mean by "dead"?

5:16:01 verisimilitude I prefer the distributed ``random guys website'' model, MerlinTheWizard.

5:16:20 verisimilitude It's a shame so much CL is on github.

5:16:21 p_l saturn2: It pretty much stopped being updated much, especially after ASDF-Install stopped being a thing

5:16:29 MerlinTheWizard verisimilitude, how do you find the "random guys website"? Can you tell me how many of them there are?

5:16:39 verisimilitude No, and that's part of the point.

5:16:52 MerlinTheWizard So it's better if information is harder to find?

5:16:55 verisimilitude One finds such websites by looking.

5:17:09 no-defun-allowed You use a search engine. There's probably at least two or three at the very least.

5:17:17 MerlinTheWizard That knowledge I had before I even came to this IRC channel.

5:17:26 verisimilitude Being scattered and distributed is better than everyone being on Facebook or similar filth, yes.

5:17:44 MerlinTheWizard I didn't say "put all the information on facebook"

5:17:50 MerlinTheWizard Again, talking past each other.

5:18:08 MerlinTheWizard Wrong comparison. Strawman.

5:18:12 verisimilitude That's an example of centralization, is all.

5:18:38 verisimilitude Anyway, good luck with finding a Common Lisp programmer who cares much about this issue, MerlinTheWizard.

5:18:52 MerlinTheWizard And I told you, I wasn't arguing for more centralization. Just more and better "authorities" and "hubs", as defined in the linked page.

5:19:19 MerlinTheWizard Obviously, you speak for all of them, king verisimilitude.

5:19:53 MerlinTheWizard The people who built, cliki, I'm pretty sure they cared about this issue.

5:20:12 MerlinTheWizard So you've been making nothing but ridiculous points this whole time.

5:20:23 verisimilitude This is just the general attitude I've observed over time.

5:20:44 MerlinTheWizard I'd guess your perspective is rather biased, not to mention short sighted.

5:20:48 verisimilitude Also, if you want to deal in functional programming, also consider Scheme.

5:20:56 verisimilitude I disagree with several of those here, yes.

5:21:00 MerlinTheWizard I do. But I want to do stuff.

5:21:11 MerlinTheWizard So it's CL for now.

5:21:39 p_l MerlinTheWizard: there are some attempts to make "friendly" first contact website (for example, http://lisp-lang.org) but I think careful shepherding of Wikipedia might be of more benefit to people in first contact

5:22:08 MerlinTheWizard p_l, precisely. People need "hubs" so they can get started.

5:22:25 verisimilitude I didn't need a ``hub''.

5:22:43 p_l verisimilitude: great for you, Oh Great Gatekeeper

5:22:46 verisimilitude Or, at the least, I wouldn't look back on it like that.

5:22:52 MerlinTheWizard LOL

5:23:02 saturn2 i think hubs are good

5:23:03 MerlinTheWizard Admission of biased and skewed perspective.

5:23:18 MerlinTheWizard A CL user thinks hubs are good? AMAZING!

5:24:12 p_l having a FAQ link in topic is, IMO, perfectly normal and could fulfill both easier ways to find #lisp (due to findability by web crawlers) as well as serve as good point to get people to jump further from

5:24:31 MerlinTheWizard Yes, I agree.

5:26:20 saturn2 there aren't many rewards for creating beginner resources, i guess, without a source of capital that needs to grow the user base

5:38:54 beach So that was yet another "Here is what YOU should do to make Common Lisp more attractive".

5:40:12 verisimilitude Oh, that happens often here?

5:40:28 beach Regularly, but perhaps not often.

5:40:28 no-defun-allowed Infrequently (or when I'm asleep and haven't checked the logs), yes.

5:40:36 verisimilitude How amusing.

5:42:28 beach They all claim some deep understanding as to why Common Lisp is not more popular, and it is always a single issue that is easy to fix if the person in charge would just put in a little more work.

5:44:25 beach And, of course, they all assume that Common Lisp popularity is the main goal for everyone here, and that we are all quite puzzled as to why it is not more popular.

5:45:25 verisimilitude While entertaining here, I'm glad to be free of such ignorance in my usual venue.

5:46:22 verisimilitude Not a single language I know has me caring about anyone else using it.

5:46:45 verisimilitude This is probably inconceivable for plenty of inexperienced newcomers.

5:47:12 verisimilitude Just today I saw some idiot claiming everyone must copy and paste code from Stack Overflow.

5:47:44 no-defun-allowed "How did they make Stack Overflow without using Stack Overflow?" but in an actually funny context.

5:48:04 verisimilitude Oh, that was an actual question on the site?

5:49:00 verisimilitude Imagine deriving any ego from programming, and then just copying and pasting or gluing together other people's code.

5:49:18 no-defun-allowed No, it's just a joke that is repeated quite frequently in "mainstream" programming humour places; up there with having most-positive-fixnum compiler errors and trying to balance parens.

5:49:40 verisimilitude Oh, alright. Stack Overflow can be a decent source of entertainment with such questions.

5:49:58 no-defun-allowed I'm sure someone asked that, though.

5:50:21 p_l beach: I felt it more as interested newbie, if little harsh at edges, asking based on something they found lacking

5:50:26 verisimilitude My favorite is the C++ programmer whose family tree invariants were violated by incest.

5:50:48 no-defun-allowed Wow.

5:51:04 verisimilitude Oh, unaware; care for the link?

5:51:59 verisimilitude https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6163683

5:52:11 no-defun-allowed I meant that I haven't actually seen it, but it's likely someone asked that out of the however many questions that have been asked.

5:53:42 beach p_l: You mean MerlinTheWizard? Sure, but instead of humility, we often see this behavior, insisting that WE fix things so that the obvious problems of similar newbies will disappear.

5:55:34 p_l beach: I didn't read it as "insisting that we do it" but asking if it wouldn't be useful. The discussion immediately derailed with push that not only it's not useful, it should be abhorred because <start a long political nonsense>

5:55:58 p_l and this spiraled in vicious cycle further

6:03:17 no-defun-allowed How long should my lightning talk be?

6:03:39 verisimilitude What's a lightning talk; I take it by the name it's intended to be quick.

6:04:19 verisimilitude If this is the only consideration, then I'd make it as short as I could, no-defun-allowed.

6:04:23 no-defun-allowed A format of presentation that ELS has, which is pretty short.

6:04:45 no-defun-allowed Someone suggested that I could write one for this year, given that it will be presented online.

6:05:21 beach no-defun-allowed: 5 minutes max I think.

6:05:33 phoe yes, a hard limit of 5 minutes

6:05:40 phoe also good morning

6:05:44 no-defun-allowed Got it.

6:05:53 p_l no-defun-allowed: target 2 minutes

6:05:54 verisimilitude Oh, that's right, conventions are being shuttered now; yes, considering this, make it as short as possible, no-defun-allowed.

6:06:13 p_l the remaining 3 will be eaten by technical issues and/or heckling

6:06:21 verisimilitude If you make the shortest one with useful information, it's an achievement.

6:06:25 no-defun-allowed I see.

6:06:41 p_l no-defun-allowed: especially given the broadcast nature of this year's ELS

6:06:41 phoe verisimilitude: it's weird to hear "conventions are being shuttered" about something that has been going on unchanged for at least several ELSes

6:06:58 verisimilitude Was this always an online event?

6:07:10 beach No, first time.

6:07:13 p_l my normal methods of estimation quickly go into negative time for lightning talks

6:07:35 verisimilitude Why would it be strange to read, then?

6:08:30 beach What do you mean?

6:08:51 verisimilitude I ask phoe, to clarify.

6:09:50 phoe oh, you mean *that* sort of conventions - sorry, don't mind me, I'm waking up

6:09:53 beach verisimilitude: phoe is just saying that 5-minute lightning talks have been a feature of ELS for many year. Perhaps since the beginning.

6:10:11 phoe while also trying to read the sad stuff in the chat log up there

6:10:12 verisimilitude Oh, I see the misunderstanding now.

6:10:47 verisimilitude I referred to events and he practices, yes.

6:10:58 no-defun-allowed Great, this looks like a ten-minute presentation so far.

6:11:37 verisimilitude What's the topic?

6:11:37 beach :(

6:12:19 no-defun-allowed verisimilitude: I'm trying to give a high level introduction to my Netfarm distributed object system. It took me two minutes to explain the aim and the centralised/federated/distributed terms, which is 1/5 of my presentation.

6:13:11 verisimilitude I suppose I can see why shortening that would be difficult.

6:14:51 beach no-defun-allowed: The trick is to realize that you don't have to provide all the information.

6:18:29 cyberoctopi ** NICK iAmDecim

6:23:29 no-defun-allowed 8:20 for the whole presentation.

6:24:29 no-defun-allowed beach: Yeah, I want to mention the "distributed hash table", "object system", "script machine" and some of the "other stuff" with some examples and definitions, which is tricky.

6:24:50 no-defun-allowed It wouldn't be nice to throw new terms without explaining them at the audience though.

6:25:36 phoe this certainly seems more like a full-size talk then

6:26:22 no-defun-allowed Dammit.

6:26:57 phoe if anything, I'd do a lightning talk that only shows the examples and the most important practical parts *without* introducing the new terms at all - "I have several networked computers, if I do this on one computer, then this thing pops up on all these computers" three or four times

6:27:12 no-defun-allowed Sure.

6:27:25 phoe and/or do a full size 25-minute talk that actually explains the theoretical basics and then performs the examples

6:28:12 phoe and/or just record this stuff and throw it at the ELS mailing list and Reddit; in a way, we have ELS all year long this year due to the current pandemic circumstances

6:28:28 no-defun-allowed Right then.

6:28:48 easye ACTION chants "ELS ... All ... Year"

6:29:26 verisimilitude An obvious suggestion is heavily compressing all of your sentences, no-defun-allowed.

6:29:54 verisimilitude That could be bothersome to actually listen to, however.

6:30:20 phoe verisimilitude: I tried that with my first ELS lightning talk ever

6:30:25 phoe the effect was poor

6:31:01 phoe I can't therefore really recommend it; human listening and understanding bandwidth isn't good enough for compression to be really viable

6:32:02 phoe easye: every day is lisp day™

6:32:18 verisimilitude Using a language such as Lojban isn't an option, yes.

6:32:27 no-defun-allowed Okay, I dropped the less interesting parts and it should be shorter now.

6:33:11 beach no-defun-allowed: It's the hard part of any talk, knowing what not to say.

6:33:12 phoe verisimilitude: neither is gzipping the stream of data you present and leaving uncompressing it as an exercise for the reader, or *even* just speaking faster

6:36:23 Shinmera no-defun-allowed: Lightning talks traditionally are '5 minutes, and if you go one second more, Didier kills you live on stage'

6:36:36 no-defun-allowed Haha, I'm immortal now!

6:37:15 verisimilitude Hello, Shinmera.

6:37:38 verisimilitude My notes on that dns-client were noticed, right?

6:39:02 Shinmera Yeah

6:39:17 Shinmera Not doing anything about it at the moment though.

6:40:15 verisimilitude I've further notes on that DECODE-HOST; I'd use DPB and LDB instead of your subtraction by a binary constant and I'd simplify it by making the increment conditional; the only reason I understand what that constant did was because I've read some of the DNS documents.

6:40:56 Shinmera Sure. I just copied another implementation because I was in a hurry.

6:41:17 verisimilitude Alright.

6:42:42 verisimilitude I don't want to unduly criticize, but the special variables specifically for Google and Cloudflare DNS servers is something I'd never write.

6:45:01 no-defun-allowed 7:00 now. If I extrapolate this, it should take me about 2 more takes to get it under 5 minutes.

6:45:55 Shinmera you can just... not use them if you don't like them.

6:46:14 verisimilitude Well, I'm going to write my own DNS library anyway; it's simply my final note on it.

6:46:20 Shinmera no-defun-allowed: don't speak too fast, though...

6:46:30 Shinmera ACTION shrugs

6:47:20 no-defun-allowed ACTION cuts out more stuff

6:54:40 no-defun-allowed 5:30 now. Maybe I can speak a tad faster.

6:54:57 verisimilitude Remove any greetings.

6:55:06 beach I don't think it will be rejected at that length.

6:55:47 beach ... especially since there seem to be relatively few lightning talks today.

6:56:03 no-defun-allowed Hm, I don't want to find out what the online equivalent of being killed live on stage is, nor take too long given the circumstances.

6:56:19 beach I understand.

6:56:27 phoe Didier used to get killed himself during one of his talks that went for, like, six and half a minute

6:56:35 verisimilitude Just look at what happened to RMS, no-defun-allowed.

6:56:38 phoe and look he's still around to organize ELS this year

6:57:49 Shinmera Being dead ain't stopped nobody before

6:58:49 beach Yeah, being alive is overrated anyway.

6:58:58 verisimilitude I don't even like being alive.

7:02:59 no-defun-allowed Right, now it's pretty short. I can probably cut out :30 removing my stuttering.

7:04:26 beach no-defun-allowed: Are you aiming for today or tomorrow (UTC+2) for your lightning talk?

7:04:52 no-defun-allowed I'm not sure, I just need to do some quick editing now.

7:05:20 beach It doesn't matter much I guess. Shinmera will fit it in when he can.

7:10:16 verisimilitude What will Shinmera give a talk on?

7:10:25 Shinmera nothing.

7:10:28 Shinmera I'm organising.

7:10:37 phoe How To Organize ELS Over the Internet: A Practical Approach

7:10:42 beach Heh!

7:10:44 Shinmera step 1: despair

7:10:59 beach A lightning talk should be long enough for that, right? :)

7:11:20 Shinmera Either that, or it's a life long experience :V

7:12:28 beach MerlinTheWizard: You may find that today and tomorrow (UTC+2) many people here are busy attending the online ELS conference.

7:13:43 no-defun-allowed Right, it's rendering now.

10:03:46 easye Marco's talk broke the Internet...

10:04:09 beach Looks that way.

10:04:17 phoe the amazing initial on the S letter was too much for the stream

10:04:31 easye It is a very cool graphic riffing off the book, indeed.

10:04:39 phoe as a calligrapher myself, I just burst into laughter

10:13:12 Gnuxie[m] will we get to watch the talks after broadcast? my connection is too poor for the quality twitch is offering

10:13:36 beach Yes, I am told they will be on the ELS site.

10:14:26 Gnuxie[m] nice

10:15:57 Shinmera Gnuxie[m]: https://twitch.tv/elsconf/videos/

10:16:25 Shinmera should be able to download the VODs, too.

10:19:42 Gnuxie[m] Shinmera: thank you :)

10:37:42 Krystof right, streaming at 1080p means I have to be very close to our router (and my wife must not be on a simultaneous call)

10:37:52 Krystof I'm getting the gist of the talks though :-)

10:38:22 Shinmera It's less the resolution, and more the bitrate. I thought twitch would offer rescaling options like it usually does, but they're not on for whatever reason.

10:39:43 easye Krystof: if you have a tablet, I think there is a "Twitch App" which might do optimizations.

10:40:19 mgr_ but the image quality is nice and shiny when it works :)

10:40:39 phoe it's also nice and shiny when it doesn't work, except then also it doesn't move

10:40:51 Krystof Shinmera: I think you have to be a "partner" for your viewers to get options

10:41:15 easye Other than Marco's gorgeous presentation, 1080p has been mostly unneeded.

10:41:17 Shinmera Possible that they changed that, but I thought my usual stream also got them.

10:41:30 Shinmera and I'm not partnered

10:43:32 MichaelRaskin It seems to be true that for a given target bitrate, higher starting resolution gives better results…

10:44:14 MichaelRaskin But Shinmera did not even have enough wall-clock time between getting the videos and putting them up to recode anything

10:46:26 easye Well, we could maybe get Krystof to give us a MAP/REDUCE instance to recode.

10:46:48 easye (not a serious suggestion)

10:46:56 Krystof *phew* :)

10:48:54 Shinmera MichaelRaskin: I downloaded the last video for today this morning...

10:49:21 Krystof that is entirely consistent with my usual timetable for writing slides

10:49:58 MichaelRaskin Shinmera: even if it were yesterday, still not enough time in practice to recode…

10:55:52 cpape Is a audio-only mode possible? My bandwidth is too limited for the 1080.

11:06:20 Krystof speaking as someone who has been a local organizer for a conference - I think the fact that we have anything at all in the way of ELS, let alone something that is as good as this is pretty cool

11:06:27 Shinmera MichaelRaskin: yes, plus, as I said, I was doing this on the assumption that there would be live reencodes for people with worse connections.

11:06:40 Krystof and even when my video cuts out, getting the twitch chat is great :)

11:06:40 Shinmera Krystof: I think so too

11:09:24 luis Shinmera: yes, thanks for this!

11:09:26 cpape It is great, yes, thank you Shinmera! I follow the chat; will watch the videos async.

11:29:29 phoe (incf Shinmera)

11:45:57 jmercouris (decf Shinmera)

11:46:12 Bike wow, rude.

11:46:26 White_Flame (setf Shinmera #c(1 1))

11:46:33 jmercouris I'm just bringing Shinmera back to its original value

11:47:09 phoe (complex-incf Shinmera)

11:47:27 jmercouris (setf Shinmera (- 1 (+ 1 Shinmera)))

11:47:50 phoe so you basically tumble him around for a moment and then set him back in his place

11:47:54 phoe hmm

11:47:57 no-defun-allowed (my-utility-library-that-totally-exists:overwrite-instance Shinmera (class-prototype (class-of Shinmera)))

11:48:58 phoe watch out, he might have some unbound slots now

11:49:13 phoe (reinitialize-instance Shinmera)

11:49:27 no-defun-allowed My overwrite-instance checks for unbound slots, because I was bitten by not checking a few minutes after I wrote it the first time.

11:49:39 phoe ooh, okay

11:49:57 jmercouris the thing is this though

11:50:02 jmercouris shinmera is an integer

11:50:25 Shinmera everything is with the right indexing.

11:50:37 no-defun-allowed In that case, shouldn't (- 1 (+ 1 #)) just create a new Shinmera + 1 and then a new Shinmera + 1 - 1

11:51:04 no-defun-allowed (line 13 of netfarm/Code/Objects/MOP/rewrite-references.lisp)

11:59:57 luis This is not the kind of discussion we'd be having face to face, I don't think. :)

12:00:15 jmercouris error : not bound in the keyword package

12:03:06 flip214 Can I download the ELS talks, or are they only available as a live-stream?

12:03:20 phoe flip214: they should be available for download

12:06:37 flip214 don't see how to download in twitch right now

12:06:44 flip214 but perhaps I'll find it later on

12:07:22 phoe flip214: it's available for streaming https://www.twitch.tv/videos/603969430 and will likely be made downloadable soon

12:07:39 phoe AFAIR it requires some toggles in Twitch settingsd

12:08:21 Shinmera you should be able to use youtube-dl to download the vods

12:19:56 jdz I'm using mpv to watch the stream (it uses youtube-dl underneath).

12:20:32 jdz At least then I can pause and then watch at increased speed to catch up.

12:21:20 jdz Hardware accelerated video (on Linux) as a bonus.