libera/#commonlisp - IRC Chatlog

11:54:01 beach phae9: I don't really understand the code, but how do you handle custom reader macros?

12:06:05 phae9 i dont because you cant really :), its basically arbitrary syntax

12:06:50 beach Oh!

12:08:59 jackdaniel if you are willing to load whole software before editing it, then your parser may be the common lisp implementation itself ranging from a subset to a superset of the language itself ,)

12:09:20 jackdaniel n.b that's the idea behind language servers

12:10:12 jackdaniel having that in mind a tree sitter is known to be very performant and flexible as far as static parsing goes

12:12:25 phae9 yeah its mostly for syntax highlighting and tree manipulation

12:13:26 phae9 i was fed up with the default tree-sitter-commonlisp so I just went and made my own, its generally more accurate WRT symbol parsing and dosent rely on clojures grammar

12:13:27 beach So it is as good as, or better than, what Emacs+SLIME can do, yes?

12:14:45 jackdaniel I think that technically slime could query the implementation about the indentation and other runtime things (because it is a langauge server)

12:14:56 phae9 emacs+slime is a different thing altogether, tree-sitter just reads a file and spits out a tree that editors (and other things like diffing algorithms) can use for different purposes

12:40:11 beach I see. So it is not adapted to interactive use like in an editor?

12:43:21 beach phae9: So what do you use it for?

13:00:47 phae9 for me personally its mostly for nicer syntax highlighting

13:01:05 beach I see.

13:02:28 phae9 im sure you could hook up other applications to it for other features (difftastic for example) because thats one of treesitters good qualities, its quite composable

13:04:58 phae9 I know neovim can use treesitter for some other stuff e.g. (tree-sitter-textojects uses the `d-a-f` & `d-i-f` chords for "delete around/inside function")

13:18:13 beach I guess I haven't kept up because of the limited usefulness in the presence of reader macros, so I read up on the Wikipedia article, and apparently, tree-sitter grammars are specifically designed for incremental parsing like in editors.

14:24:14 Bubblegumdrop well, that's a question whether the cave empty of dragons is the same thing as the cave empty of knights <= how poetic

14:43:21 phae9 beach: correct, its something editors and other programs are meant to hook into

14:43:50 beach Yes, I see.

14:45:29 phae9 e.g. its designed to gracefully fail, be quite fast etc etc, more technical things that often require actually executing some model of the code are left to the likes of LSP's or something else like slime :)

14:46:32 beach Got it.

14:46:39 beach Thanks for the explanation.

15:06:00 benkard ** NICK mulk

15:25:40 phae9 np, i might add some reader macros from certain CL implementations (I already have special syntax for sbcl's package::(foo bar baz) syntax), but thats a bit more work and I'd like to get the current stuff working even better before I do that

15:48:04 beach phae9: Are you aware that we have a working incremental parser for Common Lisp that uses Eclector to read the contents of an editor buffer with Common Lisp code? Since it uses the Common Lisp reader, it can handle custom reader macros.

15:54:16 beach It is based on this: https://hal.science/hal-01887230v1/file/5-incremental-parsing.pdf work, but scymtym has since improved it quite a lot so that it handles changed reader states like input base etc.

16:01:30 smlckz- ** NICK Guest6228

17:24:36 phae9 never heard of it, very cool though

17:39:57 jackdaniel what would be an example of a reader macro that requires special handling by tge parser in the code editor?

17:40:31 jackdaniel I know there was an example, I just find it hard to remember it

17:40:44 jackdaniel the*

17:42:19 smlckz- Is there any code editor out there that does that?

17:42:30 thuna` jackdaniel: Special handling how?

17:44:14 jackdaniel beach and scymtym work on a common lisp editor. one of its selling points is that it truly understands the code that is parsed

17:44:58 jackdaniel scymtym linked a few nice demos in the past; see discussion from today (immedietely above)

17:45:04 jackdaniel also see*

17:46:22 thuna` If the special handling is wrt safety, then maybe `#.'?

18:26:16 phae9 beach: what editor do you work on? :)

18:37:17 smlckz- jackdaniel: I joined later, so I don't see the discussion and links for that..

19:14:38 random-nick smlckz-: there are public logs for this channel https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp?around=1730828397#1730828397

19:15:31 random-nick the editor in question is called second climacs, but afaik it is not in a usable state yet

20:14:34 smlckz- ah

22:41:27 phae9 wow, looks very interesting