libera/#commonlisp - IRC Chatlog
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13:45:33
_death
and then there's the fact that I may read 10 different papers on the same subject and have to figure out 11 different notations..
13:48:32
_death
in a particular subject I've noticed that papers from around 2000 onwards have noticeably different notations (that are more difficult to follow, currently) ... this may be an artifact of specialization, or explosion of students, or different software used to produce them, I don't know
13:50:58
_death
excellent.. combined with the attitude that if it's in parentheses it can be ignored :)
14:07:31
Guest74
I've often wondered how the layouting of math formulas should be implemented in lisp.
14:16:18
Guest74
but I mean layout of math for printing purposes, whether page or display, as math, not sexp.
14:43:32
dim
so, I have FATAL error: The value #(#S(SB-IMPL::EXTERNAL-FORMAT is not of type HASH-TABLE
14:43:49
dim
(more details at https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/runs/7025602569?check_suite_focus=true#step:7:1281)
14:47:34
_death
dim: representation of sb-impl::*external-formats* changed about a year ago.. maybe something expects the old one
14:47:58
dim
yeah, what would be a lib that you can think of that needs an update and didn't see it in debian? ;-)
14:48:21
dim
I'm running through my list of build deps for pgloader, but I'm not finding it yet, and I don't have a principled way in mind to find it
14:48:44
dim
the short of debian CL libs is that they're not updated, only when pgloader build breaks...
14:49:12
dim
so let's forget about debian, what's a lib that you can think of that required an update after the SBCL change of external-formats internal structure?
14:51:21
dim
https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/blob/3853c8996f4cc606f63f892868dfd0adeffb2a44/src/utils/charsets.lisp#L237
14:52:10
dim
any idea what's the proper way to loop through the sb-impl::*external-formats* nowadays? looked like just a list right?
14:55:18
_death
not sure there's a proper way in sbcl (other the list in the manual? heh); interestingly there may have been a list-all-external-formats in cmucl that got removed
14:59:34
dim
(loop for encoding across sb-impl::*external-formats* collect (slot-value encoding 'sb-impl::names))
15:01:44
_death
you could do something like that and risk breaking in the future.. or you could ask sbcl devs to properly expose it/hardcode a list
15:02:13
pjb
(map 'list (lambda (encoding) (slot-value encoding 'sb-impl::names)) sb-impl::*external-formats*)
15:04:28
Nilby
strangely the names of utf8 seems to be another external-format, and some names are null
15:09:50
dim
(loop for encoding across sb-impl::*external-formats* when encoding collect (typecase encoding (sb-impl::external-format (slot-value encoding 'sb-impl::names)) (list (slot-value (first encoding) 'sb-impl::names))))
15:26:05
mfiano
dim: You're using slot-value on a struct which is UB, though I guess you're also writing implementation-specific code with unexported symbols. I think you should raise this in #sbcl and maybe get some stable interface so you won't be surprised in the future.
15:26:45
dim
I had to edit that code once in about 10 years I believe, I can live with that honnestly
18:48:27
pjb
Josh_2: too bad he doesn't have a persistent nick, we will have to re-explain everything!
19:03:50
Guest74
pjb: all the guest nicks are persistent. Now if you explained anything to any guest accounts recently then maybe whatever is logging the channel is getting kicked as often as I am.
19:09:12
pjb
Perhaps with a real nick you wouldn't get kicked so often? Or at least, you could still be you.
19:10:09
Bike
you're not getting kicked. your client apparently sucks and is not responding to pings, so libera drops you.
19:19:29
Bike
the channel is being logged fine. pjb is merely referring to the inconvenience of your weird refusal to get an actual name.
19:22:08
Guest74
just cant be bothered when this thing remembers me perfectly. What's weird is how much it bothers some people.
19:23:01
Bike
i don't think it bothers anybody very much. it bothers many people a bit, in the same way that going through the effort to take thirty seconds to configure your client is too bothersome for you.
19:24:50
Bike
it's not a big deal or anything. just one of those weird little personal quirks that make talking to people online just a little more annoying for everyone.
19:25:56
Guest74
hey, i find it annoying that people don't use their real names as their nicks, but I don't go around complaining to everybody.
19:27:17
Guest74
sure, I'm named with a consistent identifier as well as peoples whose nicks have nothing to do with their names..
19:27:28
mfiano
I think they are just looking for attention. When we set +R during a flood they might reconsider.
19:28:32
yitzi
Guest74: When a plurality of the residents of this channel tell you that they find it irritating that you won't pick a nickname and you respond that you "just cant be bothered" that is a direct statement of how much you value their opinions/irritation.
19:29:37
Bike
because it would be so little effort on your part. easier than arguing about it, even. so your stated reason for refusal is just that you don't mind us being annoyed.
19:29:54
rotateq
and I see a nickname as a nice opportunity to express something about what drives one inside :)
19:30:04
Guest74
They want me to research and install a client, configure it, register a nick somewhere somehow, all so that they wont be bother by seeing the exact same consistent nick over and over again.
19:30:23
Bike
no, i want you to use your web client to pick a name. they pretty much all do that. web.libera.chat does.
19:31:04
Bike
because you entered it once and it stuck with that. if you entered something else it would stick with something else.
19:31:34
mfiano
It won't stick with that if you leave and the nick generator assigns that name to someone else.
19:31:39
Bike
it even lets you hook in your nickserv registration and you won't need to remember your password or anything.
19:31:39
Guest74
ffs, I'm really tired of the whole, oh you're so inconsiderate because you don't do things the way we do things and we'll judge you from that standpoint without even giving a thought to your point of view.
19:32:06
Bike
your point of view is that you don't care about our annoyance because you don't want to take thirty seconds to configure your client. i have considered your viewpoint and do not consider it worthwhile.
19:33:41
Bike
my least favorite part of being a moderator is when someone is a little bit of an asshole, but not enough that i feel justified in kicking them immediately.
19:35:36
mfiano
yitzi: The IRC server chooses a random guest name if one is not selected that is not already assigned.
19:38:30
yitzi
mfiano: Thanks. Seems a bit odd that the system permits reuse of the same handles. Probably b.c. the idea that someone would want to keep the same guest handle is bizarre.
19:38:31
Bike
oh, if you're asking whether i feel justified kicking guest74, still not really. they just ragequit, i guess.
20:09:16
contrapunctus
I keep forgetting I've been told to not use emoji here. Used them twice today itself.
20:11:05
rotateq
Josh_2: something wents wrong when i try loading that package since i updated to emacs 28, but hey
23:14:57
seok
damn, mfiano-utils is too advanced for me. It's just giving me more lisp books to read