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9:11:24
lukego
Oh well, my intentions were pure, but the straight port seems like a hassle because SLY and SLIME have different mechanisms for the way a CLIM presentation would find its way to the appropriate REPL. I don't really want to spend time working that out when I could try the New Shiny Approach of having the Emacs side make on-demand requests for the CLIM/SVG representation of various objects that it can reference.
9:18:20
splittist
What is the attraction of Sly over Slime? Folks sometimes say 'stickers!' like it should mean something. It could be I am too dim to grasp the benefits.
9:18:36
jackdaniel
beach: that is the same issue I had in August last year - apparently I had stale version of quicklisp on this computer. sorry for the noise.
9:19:24
lukego
I don't know the answer but it seems like people are using both. Myself I wanted to try out the fancy new Emacs completion frameworks and at the bottom of that rabbit hole it seems like I found incompatibilities with SLIME. So I tried SLY and it Just Worked and so I stuck there.
9:21:48
lukego
I could easily move back to SLIME, I'm not using any of those new fangled completion features anyway, but my vague impression is that supporting both would be good e.g. I saw Xach mention that he uses SLY.
9:23:16
lukego
(If I switched back to SLIME then I'd have to confront the fact that I have wasted quite some hours of toil this week on mucking around with SLY.)
9:28:24
lukego
oh well I'll indulge the sunk cost fallacy until this afternoon and then at least have more data to decide how badly I am wasting my time.
9:29:30
jackdaniel
if my private amusement can weigh on the decision - I'm presonally using slime so it would be nice to have it working in slime
9:31:29
lukego
The existing SLIME-based implementation should keep working just fine. This new SLY-based one may or may not work. If they both work then we can talk about which is better to double down on and make portable.
9:32:47
lukego
(I'm sandboxing all the SLY-specific code into separate files and being conscious of potential compatibility problems. So in principle this could should be easier to add SLIME compatibility too. I'd never looked at SLY when starting the original code.)
10:04:53
lukego
Could also be that this new approach will end up /worse/ once I understand what it means for SLY to have replaced SLIME's "presentations" with something else.
10:07:38
lukego
SLY does are pretty clear: there's a particular representation for live Lisp objects being displayed in Emacs and some standard operations on them. I would just be adding an additional such operation i.e. toggle to the CLIM/SVG representation (or with modifier display that separately, etc). https://joaotavora.github.io/sly/#Interactive-objects
10:31:37
jackdaniel
pointer-driven selection/annotation scope: http://turtleware.eu/static/paste/36ad6ed3207994671c1ef5a6e95cbef3cc87aeec-annotation.webm
10:39:36
lukego
I switched back to SLIME. Let's get it all working really well here before we add support for SLY, which I now realize is a whole can of worms. Likely if we just get it working really great on SLIME then someone else will want to add SLY support anyway.
10:41:50
jackdaniel
first text-input gadgets then input-editing-stream replacement; so basically yes
10:56:56
jackdaniel
as usual that work implies numerous other changes that improve core infrastructure. i.e we have now pointer-motion gesture type
11:02:00
lukego
selwynning: do you have a newer version of the mcclim-emacs branch i.e. based on a newer mcclim? I merged it with master but I'm getting some weird build errors (related to mcclim-layouts/tab) and I wonder if its something you already fixed
11:08:53
lukego
"Component #:MCCLIM-LAYOUTS/TAB not found, required by #<SYSTEM "mcclim/extensions">" when loading McCLIM from git with merge of master and the mcclim-emacs branches, specifically.
11:13:30
lukego
Maybe so. ASDF doesn't seem to be finding MCCLIM-SVG either. Probably I botched something.
11:20:27
lukego
I thought it would be enough to evaluate mcclim.asd in the new checkout before doing REQUIRE but that might have been naive.
11:30:57
lukego
(has anyone else noticed that developing and maintaining code takes really quite a lot of time and effort?)
11:34:05
jackdaniel
that depends on the approach. some people write code and then retroactively act when something requires attention
11:52:36
selwynning
i used to clear cache quite often as it was necessary while switching text renderers
11:53:52
lukego
I have introduced a few too many changes into my personal computing environment lately. teething problems. now it's Doom Emacs not picking up the right version of SLIME.
12:03:49
lukego
okay I have selwynning's code up and running now. My grand redesign this week is a flop and I'll write that off to experience. back to working on my real problem and incremental improvements for a while :)
12:05:23
selwynning
requiring a specific version of slime is very annoying and why a pr should be the priority