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10:56:51
lukego
jackdaniel selwynning: basically I want to produce some animated SVGs and for present purposes clime/mcclim-emacs seems preferable to other options like raw SVG, reveal.js, blender, etc. So I'm trying to quickly get it up and running again but with the complication that I switched from SLIME to SLY and so it needs porting :)
10:57:51
jackdaniel
I think that the svg backend as it is now is incapable of producing animations so that may be a problem
11:00:44
jackdaniel
I hope that you've meant build not burn because it is hard to cross a burning bridge! ;)
11:04:25
lukego
yeah I blew the dust of that, it's from the standard set of idioms that my grandfather's generation were into
11:04:59
jackdaniel
speaking of animations, I've already removed a few obstacles towards that goal, but there are still some
11:05:35
lukego
I haven't actually read the SVG animation spec yet but I'm anticipating being able to e.g. define keyframes saying where things should be at a point in time and then interpolate between them
11:05:48
jackdaniel
mcclim already can do ad-hoc animations with double buffering and clever event scheduling, but having them as a first class concept requires some extra work on the repaint queue (which is planned)
11:06:35
lukego
I'm meaning to present them in the browser e.g. revealjs slideware. I mostly want the emacs/mcclim integration for a comfy development workflow.
11:07:01
lukego
I gather that browsers have mutiple ways to animate things e.g. both at the SVG and CSS levels.
11:07:34
lukego
right. it was the thought of writing javascript code that made me come crawling back to mcclim :)
11:07:50
jackdaniel
imo it is a shame that they've botched svg format to include javascript programming language and css as parts of it
11:11:11
jackdaniel
that's another question whether emacs renderer supports animated svg's (I don't know, just asking)
11:11:35
lukego
I think it does. or at least animated bitmaps, and it internally renders SVGs to bitmaps during the input/import process.
11:12:26
lukego
"multi-frame images" https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Multi_002dFrame-Images.html
11:13:36
lukego
I'd actually like to do this in Blender but I'm not sure how suitable its animated-SVG-export feature is and also I'd like to write Lisp code to specify the positions of things at various things.
11:21:16
lukego
since the last time I was here I spent quite a bit of time hacking Julia before concluding that it's not really a substitute for Lisp nor, really, even for R.
11:21:51
jackdaniel
thanks, it is temporarily stalled by other mcclim and ecl tasks but I think that I've cracked the most pressing conceptual issues for now
11:23:13
jackdaniel
https://c10.patreonusercontent.com/4/patreon-media/p/post/75916637/336466f3c00041e6aa6e06ab317f2088/eyJxIjoxMDAsIndlYnAiOjB9/1.png?token-time=1677110400&token-hash=cIf-IqdaTvRRM6jsvfZB49f_fTRdbQhdH0yTL-rHaEU%3D this is the picture of grouped bar charts (dodging and all)
11:25:08
jackdaniel
currently it is licensed under agpl-3.0+, that may potentially change later when it is finished
11:29:22
lukego
that screenshot is impressive :) easy to imagine wanting to switch to this for visualizing data generated in lisp. my workflow in Julia was usually to dump a CSV to an R/ggplot2 process that's running in tandem.
11:30:14
lukego
and if e.g. points in scatterplots could be proper presentations of objects that could be really killer.
11:31:00
jackdaniel
on the other hand creating a presentation is not that much expensive, depends how much data we are talking about
11:33:03
jackdaniel
another angle that is not really covered by ggplot is making the plot interactive
11:33:12
lukego
the scatterplots I did in julia tended to have thousands of points. that could give the Emacs side of CLIME a workout trying to track the presentations, I don't remember what data structure it uses off hand :)
11:34:03
jackdaniel
mcclim has a well optimized spatial tree, so it should handle thousands of points easily
11:34:06
lukego
yeah ggplot2 is a bit of a pain in the ass. random walk through options looking for a publication-quality result. better for scientists than engineers
11:34:46
jackdaniel
grammar of graphics was "invented" by the creator of ggplot2, and there are many good things there conceptually
11:35:05
jackdaniel
earlier I've written (unreleased) library for generating charts without thinking things through
11:35:17
lukego
yeah. it's the best tool for me for now, but it feels like something more geared towards creating "just so" graphs to present to other people, than wrangling my own data.
11:35:29
jackdaniel
it was a hot pulsating mess; having a guide in a form of a "grammar" is a godsend
11:57:23
jackdaniel
if I remember correctly from key features only faceting is missing; other than that it is a matter of polishing and adding new chart types / statistics. but there is readme.org that ought to know better than I remember now