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13:03:36
jackdaniel
a few interesting papers revolving around cl and guis in here: http://lispm.de/docs/Publications/UI/
16:03:24
mrcom
That's quite a bibliography. Is there anything like it on Cliki or another common resource site?
16:09:44
mrcom
I'm looking through one of them right now. From 2008, "An implementation of CLIM Presentation Types," by Timoty Moore.
16:11:01
mrcom
Interesting sentence: "many presentation types do not have `standard-objects' as a supertype".
16:27:23
mrcom
And to get back to the "interesting sentence"... I think he's primarily referring to bultin types, such as REAL?
16:29:16
mrcom
It's a somewhat-common practice to create presentation types that aren't descendants of STANDARD-OBJECT?
16:29:17
jackdaniel
parametrizing standard classes is one, but another is assigning semantical roles to objects
16:29:28
jackdaniel
for example you want to display some arbitrary collection of data in a form of a graph
16:30:48
jackdaniel
you may look into Documentation/Notes/presentatin-types.org remarks if you are interested in more details
16:31:33
mrcom
But aren't they still descended from S-O? Or is there a whole 'nother object type tree?
16:33:07
jackdaniel
consider these two presentations: (define-presentaition-type foo () :inherit-from <my-class>)
16:34:55
mrcom
Ok, it clicked--the _presentation type_ isn't a subtype of S-O. We aren't talking about the underlying class it's wrapping for presentation.
16:43:36
mrcom
No search function on Moore's site, but what a lot of interesting links. Thanks jackdaniel, another time-eating rabbit-hole. :)
16:45:08
contrapunctus
mrcom: thanks, I hadn't received those messages for some reason. (Found them in the log.)
16:51:25
mrcom
"everyone is invited to join in if they can manage to get things running." Gotta love university projects :)
16:53:59
mrcom
jackdaniel: Any objections to posting the link to Moore's site on #lisp? I guess we don't really need to worry about thundering herds...
16:54:29
jackdaniel
afaik it is hosted by Rainer, and I think that this paper is also linked on mcclim website
16:54:46
jackdaniel
either way I don't mind, if they didn't want it to be seen, they would not put it on web
17:04:02
mrcom
Home page says "Don't try to copy the whole site." I think because it's resource-limited, but...
17:12:05
mrcom
Wayback machine has an " Access Forbidden" page for lispm.de, so I guess Rainer doesn't want it archived.
17:13:56
mrcom
Look like he just put that up... 2022-02-23 snapshot exists, 2022-02-28 and on have 403.
17:45:10
maxz
Is there some kind of callback for scrollbars? I could not find anything in the CLIM2 specification or the McCLIM documentation. I want to do some things when a scrollbar is moved.
17:52:29
cmack
I'm still working to get the code into a shareable, works-on-more-computers-than-just-mine state but I had a recent visual success with implementing very early wayland backend proof-of-concept https://i.imgur.com/kgoN86i.png
17:55:53
jackdaniel
cmack: small hint - if you want messages to always appear in the terminal (i.e not in the frame's standard output), then print to the stream *debug-io*
17:55:55
cmack
jackdaniel: I don't think I have the full protocol implemented yet. I do have a mirror for wayland+egl and it has REALIZE-MIRROR and DESTROY-MIRROR...
17:56:33
cmack
this project has been a learning experience in how all the sheets, mirror, ports are related. So I'm sure I have some things wrong
17:57:33
jackdaniel
when I'm home I can send you some incomplete notes about mirros if you are interested
17:57:44
maxz
jackdaniel: Thank you. I will take a look at that. I am using the scrollbar which is generated as part of the pane definition, so I will have to check how to properly attach the callback to that one.
17:59:31
maxz
jackdaniel: You did some great work in May. I did not quite appreciate the broken scrollbar which was there for a while, but after the refactoring you did, some long standing bugs I had to deal with disappeared.
17:59:47
jackdaniel
maxz: portably you can't modify the scroll bar callbacks at runtime, so I'd rather suggest creating scroll bars manually (i.e with the scrolling macro)