libera/#clim - IRC Chatlog
Search
8:23:18
jackdaniel
scymtym_: my doughter said (when saw your demo) without any priming - "oh, a bug! :)"
8:39:09
scymtym_
jackdaniel: makes sense if one equates "bug" and "alien". did she happen to read/watch starship troopers before that?
8:44:34
jackdaniel
the latter in russian version - it is so much better than disney (even Milne agreed to that)
9:14:34
scymtym_
beach: starship troopers is an old american science fiction novel of the military variety. the film adaptation is basically a parody of the militarism in the book
9:27:24
pjb
beach: it's a novel from Robert A. Heinlein, my favorite scifi author. Reading his books is good for morale.
9:28:56
pjb
"Have Spacesuit, Will Travel", "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", "And He Built a Crooked House", "Stranger in a Strange Land", etc.
9:32:17
pjb
One idea developped in "Starship Trooper" is that only military are citizens with voting rights.
14:32:03
beach
As I recall, it was pretty smart about rendering incorrect HTML, which is apparently quite common.
14:38:28
lisp123
I found https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/beirc/beirc , but currently unable to find the HTML renderer in it. Although it has some useful code examples to copy on color etc
14:52:05
lisp123
Time for the weekend :) I used a post from 2016 between you and a few others to get there, so that was very helpful :)
14:53:17
beach
I see. The creator is gilberth. I understand he hangs out in #lispcafe, or #lisp maybe?
14:54:21
lisp123
I have seen the name, so thanks, now I know they are related. Will reach out to him if any questions
14:55:29
jackdaniel
not only him, there were two independent project afaik that were happily married ever after
15:57:40
scymtym_
i made a markdown editor prototype with preview from parts i had lying around: https://techfak.de/~jmoringe/markdown-editor-1.ogv
15:59:48
scymtym_
would probably benefit from incremental redisplay, but i wanted to keep it minimal
16:01:31
scymtym_
yes, but rendering everything for every keystroke would still be to slow. double buffering would only eliminate the flickering
16:01:59
jackdaniel
yes and no, I think that I've primed you on this a few weeks ago - framebuffer backends does double buffering, scymtym_ also has doublebuffering for clx in a branch, I have a branch for portable double buffering (but currently got sidetracked with (command processing (accepting values (incremental redisplay))))
16:10:04
scymtym_
why does it hat have to take multiple programming languages and ides as well as gigabytes of RAM and tens of thousands of packages to display a few interactive buttons and tables on a web page?
16:11:33
jackdaniel
something went wrong between adding javascript (instead of scheme), browser wars, new-falanged css "designers", sandboxes and drm standardization
16:17:32
scymtym_
anyway, this is the same renderer but with double buffering: https://techfak.de/~jmoringe/markdown-editor-2.ogv
16:18:47
scymtym_
actually, it may also perform better since the FORCE-OUTPUT calls that slow down the clx backend are not needed
16:19:26
jackdaniel
the monitor in the background gives a nice retro feel, not that we don't have enough of it in McCLIM ,)
16:21:24
scymtym_
maybe because of wine or maybe because it uses GDI instead of one of the more modern graphics apis
16:32:20
beach
scymtym_: In your listener demo, there were a few cases where some color blobs were "left behind". Do we know the cause of that?
16:34:06
scymtym_
beach: my guesses are incorrect bounding rectangles or repainting a too-small sheet region due to rounding problems
16:34:52
jackdaniel
speaking of rounding issues, what do you all think about making the default line thickness 2?
16:36:20
jackdaniel
consider (draw-line* 0 0 10 0) - it's bounding rectangle is (0 -.5 10 +.5), while with thickness 2 it is (0 -1 10 1)
16:39:11
jackdaniel
(draw-rectangle* 0 0 10 10) -- either it is (-1 -1 11 11) or (-.5 -.5 10.5 10.5)
16:43:56
jackdaniel
perhaps I remember wrong, but it was you who convinced me that unfilled rectangle are drawn "normally", that is as lines between x1,y1 -> x1,y2 etc
16:45:01
jackdaniel
starting here: https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23clim?around=1548777990#1548777990
16:46:55
jackdaniel
(but the form I've written was incomplete, I should have added :filled nil - yes)
16:47:41
jackdaniel
so back to the original question, are there any objections to have the thickness default to 2?
16:48:24
jackdaniel
(I'm still not sure whether default default, or after translating from normal to device units)
16:49:15
jackdaniel
that will be easier for mundane applications (and possibly more performant, because we won't get out of the fixnum realm)
16:50:21
scymtym_
the render backend works best with fractional coordinates. for example a line from (0 .5) to (10 .5) and thickness 1 fills exactly one pixel in each "column"
16:51:02
scymtym_
i may be mistaken, but i think that behavior is in line with the CLIM drawing model
16:51:06
jackdaniel
yes, but if the thickness is 2, then it will fill exactly two pixels in each column, without blurrying
16:52:26
scymtym_
depends on the fractional part of the coordinates. for integers, thickness 2 would result in one "full" pixel in the middle and one "half" pixel on either side, i believe
16:52:34
jackdaniel
yeah, clim spec does allow antialiasing (http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/12-4.html#_605)
16:55:47
jackdaniel
the line thickness is specified to default to 1, so this part is known, but we still may manipulate normal-> point
16:56:30
jackdaniel
and that part is rather port-specific, so this could be tweaked per backend (i.e fb could maintain the current behavior)