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12:13:57
schweers
talx: in case you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_SKILL, it is /a/ lisp dialect. This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.
12:16:41
schweers
talx: no need to be sad. Common Lisp is around today and is a very good language with good, free implementations available.
12:17:26
runejuhl
I've only worked with it for a bit of debugging, and I'm happy for that.. just the idea of a `]` operator that closes all open braces gives me pain
12:20:23
schweers
In case someone wants to accuse me of arrogance: I’m sure I’ve uttered my fair share of bad ideas.
12:21:57
runejuhl
schweers: "In the second example, the "super right bracket." This simple device automatically enters enough right parentheses to correctly complete the current expression (in this case the procedure definition)."
12:22:19
runejuhl
schweers: from SKILL: A CAD System Extension Language, 1990, https://www.cs.york.ac.uk/rts/docs/DAC-1964-2005/PAPERS/1990/DAC90_266.PDF
12:24:35
runejuhl
here's a real example: https://github.com/cdsgit/cdsgit/blob/master/cdsgit-build/cdsgit.il
12:56:21
jsjolen
phoe: Not as far as I know. But I also don't know how to check. I installed slime through ql's slime helper
12:57:04
heisig
jsjolen: Have you already evaluated the macro definition, and are you in a package where this definition is visible?
12:58:13
phoe
jsjolen: (slime-company slime-asdf slime-fancy slime-indentation slime-sbcl-exts slime-scratch)
13:00:45
jsjolen
Well, still got the issue. IT works with other macros though, it's just adt:match tha tfails.
13:03:52
heisig
jsjolen: Odd. My last, desperate guess: Is there a compiler macro of the same name present?
13:50:09
jackdaniel
if anyone have some spare time in their hands I'd appreciate critical remarks on this mailbox implementation: https://gist.github.com/dkochmanski/4de37d4e7432d8d59afa7d2a64a4bb41
14:06:11
gilberth
As a matter of taste: I do not like the business on lines 81 and 82. Why not (min (mailbox-%count mailbox) (or n (mailbox-%count mailbox)))?
14:06:57
gilberth
And then the ZEROP test could be skipped. When 'n' is zero the LOOP would return NIL as well.
14:07:28
phoe
I'd also abstain from modifying the function argument and introduce a new binding instead - again, matter of taste and a little bit of debuggability
14:17:51
hjudt_
what is the best way to concatenate pathnames, or better a pathname and a string? e.g. i want to concat "~/my/path/" "to/this/file"?
15:03:44
verisimilitude
You can also use MAKE-PATHNAME with the :DEFAULTS argument being set as necessary.
15:45:21
catchme
They require that I know the function symol, but I want to pass the pointer and args type without the symbol name
15:47:01
_death
https://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/cffi-manual.html#foreign_002dfuncall_002dpointer
15:48:55
catchme
As I understood from the example `(foreign-funcall-pointer (foreign-symbol-pointer "abs") () :int -42 :int)` the pointer doesn't mean the function pointer!
17:21:50
verisimilitude
Perhaps they wanted to fix this bug, but couldn't, because some programs have grown to depend on this useful behavior?
17:30:30
grewal
At my last job, csh (or rather tcsh) was still the "official" shell according to all the documentation. Of course, all actual shell scripts started with #!/usr/bin/bash
17:55:29
lionrouge
what is the fastest LISP dialect now? I mean suitable to write a scientific calculation program
17:56:13
lionrouge
maybe there are libraries to do the task like NumPy/SciPy/etc. in Python which itself is pretty slow
17:56:15
phoe
but, if you want Common Lisp, SBCL is pretty damn fast when it comes to optimizing numeric computation
17:57:42
verisimilitude
Unlike Python, it's common to write Common Lisp libraries in Common Lisp, or at least that's the ideal.
17:58:15
lionrouge
When I heard it's name for the first time I thought there was some Steel Bank and it created a LISP dialect for it's own internal purposes and only recently I discovered true history of the name :)
17:59:13
phoe
at that university, Carnegie was a professor of steelworking and Mellon was a professor of banking
18:01:34
verisimilitude
Rust, however poor, is an example of a language with a rather standard package manager.
18:07:01
grewal
phoe: Carnegie and Mellon weren't professors. They made their money in steel and banking, and then founded the university
18:09:05
verisimilitude
Well, I'd thought ``professor'' could be used to show support of something, making phoe roughly right despite the phrasing, but that meaning only applies when concerning religion, after checking my dictionary.
18:11:30
TMA
universities are rarely named after academics -- there are exceptions, but then the named academic was already dead by the time the university was founded
18:13:58
Bike
because carnegie mellon university as an entity didn't exist until both the actual people died, i think
18:13:59
verisimilitude
My Oxford dictionary only uses that meaning for religion, but it does make sense that it would apply to the other meanings, I thought. Which dictionary is that, dlowe?
18:14:54
Bike
wiktionary has it, and has a quote about professors of magic, which is sort of not a religion
18:15:59
dlowe
As an educated native speaker, I would never ever abscribe that meaning unless I was reading something old.
18:17:31
Bike
using cognates like that is a pretty common thing for speaking a learned language, there's no especial problem
18:18:28
verisimilitude
If people misuse the language and that's allowed without complaint, such cretins destroy the language over time.
18:19:11
grewal
p] lionrouge: Is there any particular reason you want to use lisp for scientific work?
18:20:16
verisimilitude
Tying this to Common Lisp, I expect every implementation to follow the standard, and if it doesn't, then it's broken and I won't ``correct'' my program to work on it, even if it were a trivial change.
18:21:48
grewal
Sure, but natural language is more like pseudocode than code. It adheres to a "metalanguage" rather than to a formal spec.
18:22:19
grewal
And what about if you had a working lisp program in Lisp 1.5 or Interlisp or something, you wouldn't ``correct'' it to work on Common Lisp?
18:23:40
verisimilitude
Still, Common Lisp was designed to be the common dialect and so contains many things those others had to ease this.
18:28:07
grewal
At what point do we say no more change? Should we go back to Old English or Latin? Should we drop modern languages and program everything in assembly? (N.B. I not making an analogy between Latin and assembly)
18:29:37
verisimilitude
I'd certainly prefer to use a singular ``they'' and also ``thou'' instead of the ambiguous ``you''.
18:30:08
verisimilitude
If the machine is high-level, why not program in its native language, grewal?
18:35:15
lionrouge
grewal: I'm an FPGA designer and my father is a physicist with some bright ideas on simulating physical processes which he implemented in Fortran in late 80s in his thesis. He wants to continue this work and I want to help. However I don't want to use C for it (I know it well, I do highload programs for PC and embedded and I know how easy it is to mess up and how hard it is to change program architecture once it's even a bit mature)
18:35:49
lionrouge
Also I know Python and Go, trying to study Clojure as I got interested in FP in recent couple of years.
18:37:03
lionrouge
Reading some papers by Sussman just makes me feel LISPs are superior for this kind of work
18:37:52
verisimilitude
Lisp is a particularly good language if you only have a vague idea of what you're doing, lionrouge.
18:41:03
MichaelRaskin
Another case is when you are willing to invest into making language constructs to express the computation
18:47:20
grewal
And a nice thing with Common Lisp (and possibly other dialects) is that you can optimize only what needs to be optimized
18:48:41
grewal
And don't forget that you can use ffi to communicate with any existing fortran and C libraries that you don't want to reimplement
22:36:17
sjl
It has a :use-thread key arg that defaults to t if threads are supported, so my guess would be "yes"