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Tuesday, 22nd of August 2017, 5:10:30 UTC
5:10:35
PuercoPop
has someone used https://common-lisp.net/project/clonsigna/ ?
5:31:02
shka_
there are download stats
5:31:03
shka_
http://blog.quicklisp.org/2017/08/july-2017-quicklisp-download-stats.html
5:31:16
shka_
i'm surprised to not see regexps here!
5:32:29
shka_
also, numbers seems to be growing
5:33:52
malice
shka_: surprised to not see regexps in download stats?
5:34:20
shka_
it is not top downloaded library as it seems
5:35:05
malice
I'm curious whether the stats include deps or not.
5:35:13
aeth
shka_: alexandria is always going to be the top downloaded library because of holes in the standard.
5:35:55
aeth
Most of the top downloaded projects are things that are core in many modern languages.
5:36:28
shka_
aeth: i don't care :P
5:36:50
aeth
Not everyone works with text, almost everyone works with something that alexandria covers because it's more general.
6:42:16
fiddlerwoaroof
PuercoPop: I have
6:42:35
fiddlerwoaroof
It works pretty well, IIRC, but the docs aren't always accurate
6:44:13
pillton
aeth: Stop confusing language and library.
8:07:37
shka
malice: i don't use any markup other than lisp itself
11:36:05
schweers
I have a question regarding the debugger. Suppose I have code of the structure like here http://paste.lisp.org/display/354072 Further suppose I’m already single-stepping in the debugger. Can I step over the complete loop to (some-other-code)? I’m using SLIME and SBCL.
11:41:03
shka
schweers: i don't think that SBCL has stepper implemented
11:41:18
schweers
I can single-step with SBCL
11:42:07
schweers
I don’t know of any other free implementation which has single-stepping :/
11:49:18
shka
all this time, i thought that stepper does not work
11:49:25
schweers
that’s one of the reasons I don’t use CCL for development :/
11:49:45
shka
i have been programming in sbcl for over two years
11:49:50
schweers
I also thought so for a long time
11:49:57
schweers
without a single-stepper?
11:50:12
shka
i was using slime fancy-trace
11:50:14
schweers
well, your pain has ended!
11:50:35
shka
fancy-trace is pretty usefull, and it kinda effect on how i program
11:50:51
schweers
never used it, maybe I should take a look
11:58:02
schweers
still, it seems as if breakpoints have to be known at compile time
13:08:32
dlowe
Xach: do you have a list of milestones required to get Quicklisp out of "beta"?
13:14:04
pjb
schweers: have a look at cl-stepper, so you may use ccl (or any other implementation) in development.
13:14:59
schweers
does cl-stepper require breakpoints to be known in advance?
13:15:47
dlowe
I would expect, not having used it, that it simply uses the condition raised by the (break) form.
13:19:42
schweers
which means I have to put the break form into the code in advance
13:19:46
schweers
i.e. before compiling it
13:21:09
dlowe
Some lisp implementations allow the TRACE form to set a breakpoint
13:21:33
pjb
schweers: no. But you need to compile with CL-STEPPER instead of CL.
13:21:40
dlowe
but compilation in the normal lisp environment is so trivial that I'm not sure anyone considers it an inconvenience
13:21:57
pjb
what dlowe says is true too.
13:22:11
pjb
(both trace and recompilation).
13:22:13
schweers
dlowe: I don’t think I understand
13:23:05
pjb
schweers: in ccl, trace has :break-before :break :break-after options.
13:23:34
schweers
I didn’t know that, thanks
13:23:52
dlowe
schweers: in sbcl, if you (TRACE FOO :break T) it will break on every invocation of FOO
13:24:02
dlowe
http://www.sbcl.org/manual/ 5.9
13:24:53
dlowe
Hm. It sure would be handly if the manual had anchors for the different sections
13:25:05
dlowe
ah, it does. just not easily accessible
13:25:15
dlowe
http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Function-Tracing
13:25:23
schweers
it does, but they are not numbered
13:25:48
dlowe
I mean, if you're *at* the position you want a link for, there's no convenient button
13:35:47
butterthebuddha
I'm reading practical common lisp rn
13:35:55
butterthebuddha
and am on the first practical chapter
13:36:08
butterthebuddha
is it OK if I don't understand everything at the end of the chapter?
13:36:18
butterthebuddha
Does he go through everything in more detail later?
13:36:46
schweers
if I recall correctly, he does
13:37:20
schweers
this is the chapter in question? http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html
13:37:32
dlowe
the standard academic model is to say what you're going to say, then say it, then say what you just said
13:38:07
butterthebuddha
Okay cool, ty. It's a little overwhelming because lisp is very different from everything else and he goes a little quickly
13:38:37
schweers
yes, that’s just a quick show-off tour of what you can do with the language
13:38:56
Shinmera
The first chapter is a bit hectic, but he tries to show off something "cool" to get you interested and slows down afterwards.
13:39:17
Shinmera
Which in my opinion is fine. It could've maybe used a disclaimer of some sort though.
13:39:25
schweers
butterthebuddha: I also learned CL mostly by that book
13:39:50
schweers
well, I started with that book :)
13:39:50
butterthebuddha
Also, how comprehensive is his coverage of CL?
13:40:06
Shinmera
It covers most of the fundamentals that are in the standard.
13:40:09
schweers
he shows you enough to be able to get further on your own
13:40:16
Shinmera
So, well enough to get you going.
13:40:17
butterthebuddha
Okay cool, thanks guyz
14:07:08
shka
butterthebuddha: if you don't like PCL we may recomend few other books
14:07:31
butterthebuddha
shka: nah I was just a little overwhelmed in the second chapter
14:07:50
shka
in that case, keep reading it
14:08:01
shka
if you want, you may try land of lisp
14:08:20
shka
it is very accessible and fun, but I think that PCL is actually better
14:19:31
oleo
why does ~/common-lisp directory get searched first in asdf ?
14:21:27
oleo
i had some lib there which contained lisp-unit, and antik want's the real lisp-unit package...and even tho i removed the ~/common-lisp/systems/bla.asd links it finds them in the ~/common-lisp/system directory still....
14:22:48
oleo
and to make sure of that i even rm -rf'ed the whole .cache/common-lisp/* dir too
14:24:06
oleo
and i have no (:tree....) in my systems-registry.conf in .config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ that points to ~/common-lisp again
14:24:37
dlowe
what does the asdf config variable say?
14:25:06
oleo
and i didn't set it anywere .....
14:25:31
oleo
that's the approach asdf3 uses i think
14:26:05
oleo
but did someone specify that common-lisp should be searched recursively ?
14:37:47
oleo
i could only solve it thru moving those libs in the source there to another out-of-tree location....
14:38:08
oleo
i'd just think that recursively searching common-lisp would not be ok....
14:38:44
oleo
only the systems dir of symliks to the real asdf files such that you know which you want to activate....
14:38:55
oleo
otherwise it forces you to relocate stuff
14:41:09
schweers
it’s searched recursively? I was annoyed that it’s not, but it seems that I misunderstood
14:41:41
schweers
why don’t you think that it is wrong to search ~/common-lisp recursively?
15:19:53
oleo
i DO think that it is wrong to search it recursively
15:20:59
oleo
everything (.asd files) which you link from the commonlisp/source to the common-lisp/systems directory is meant to activate that
15:21:02
jackdaniel
oleo: if you have directory structure foo/foo.asd foo/tests/foo-tests.asd and you don't search recursively, you don't have tests
15:21:11
jackdaniel
so you can't simply link project directory
15:21:56
oleo
you can cd to common-lisp/systems and do a find ../source -name "*.asd" -exec ln -s {} \;
15:22:39
jackdaniel
well, I can do a lot of things, but searching recursively is the most intuitive to me as well
15:22:54
Shinmera
Some systems don't have symlinks.
15:22:58
oleo
never mind....that's not how it worked previously....
15:23:13
oleo
ok if that was for that reason.....
15:23:38
oleo
Shinmera: which systems are that ?
15:23:39
Shinmera
Seems pretty reasonable to me that it would search recursively in a directory called "systems".
15:23:46
jackdaniel
asdf had problems with backward compatibility numerous times. one side of the coin is that it breaks stuff, the other one it isn't tied to design which maintainers consider broken
15:23:47
Shinmera
oleo: Windows Xp comes to mind. I'm sure there's others.
15:24:24
oleo
ya but systems is the collection of activated libs so to say for you....
15:24:47
oleo
now when you do search recursively only systems it would be ok or not ?
15:25:01
Shinmera
I have no idea what you just said.
15:25:12
jackdaniel
oleo: if you link each asd system individually in common-lisp (without putting directories), it won't go recursively
15:25:47
oleo
jackdaniel: i just did that...i don't put directories there or so
15:26:01
oleo
jackdaniel: and it still searched the whole of common-lisp recursively
15:26:56
oleo
anyway, you could divert asdf to detect if it is on such a system without symlinks....
15:27:18
Shinmera
inconsistent behaviour is the worst you could do.
15:27:32
oleo
otherwise the mentioned meaning of activating libs the old way just vanishes
15:27:40
oleo
and you have to move stuff around
15:27:53
Shinmera
anyway, if the default behaviour of ~/common-lisp bothers you so much you can just make your own and define its behaviour explicitly in ASDF's source registry language or whatever.
15:31:28
Fare
symlink behavior is not portable across CL implementations
15:31:47
Fare
also, it has changed slightly in some recent version of ASDF
15:32:21
oleo
and one notices stuff when it's not backwards compatible anymore....
15:32:30
Fare
I used to try not to follow them in older versions, because that was the most predictable and also the way to avoid endless recursion.
15:33:09
Fare
rpg recently added a layer to avoid endless recursion, and enabled following them on implementations such as SBCL where we were previously not following them.
15:33:26
oleo
i unlinked all .asd files in system and it still found the libs in source
15:33:41
Fare
oleo: what do you really WANT ?
15:33:56
oleo
ergo has nothing todo with following symlinks
15:34:08
Fare
maybe what you want is the source-registry-cache ?
15:34:35
Fare
~/common-lisp/ WILL be recursively searched, but you can use to source-registry-cache to stop the search
15:35:01
Fare
..../asdf/tools/cl-source-registry-cache.lisp
15:35:03
oleo
i hear of that cache stuff for the first time
15:35:25
Fare
patches to the documentation are of course welcome
15:35:28
oleo
well, i don't use asdf from source
15:38:25
Fare
well, you can grab that single file from gitlab
15:48:26
oleo
welp, i found a asdf-3.2.1 source somewhere on my hd
15:48:33
oleo
somehow that caching stuff didn't work
15:48:47
oleo
first it looks for /usr/bin/cl, i didn't have that symlink now i have
15:49:08
oleo
and i used it exactly like it says but i get into my sbcl and nothing happens....
16:01:16
Fare
did it create a .cl-source-registry.cache in the specified directory?
16:01:41
Fare
that said, this cache will be computed from a regular search of the directory
16:01:48
oleo
no it did not do that nowhere
16:02:06
oleo
i looked in comm-lisp/ in common-lisp/source and in common-lisp/systems
16:15:58
oleo
Fare: what does cl -sp asdf -E main mean ?
16:16:38
oleo
mine is sbcl, i suppose it won't understand -sp and -E
16:40:43
Fare
load system and in-package
16:41:17
Fare
cl-launch is the ultimate adapter between the Unix shell and CL
16:41:30
oleo
is it avail thru quicklisp ?
16:42:04
Fare
quicklisp will download it, but you still need it to install it as e.g. /usr/bin/cl
16:42:17
Fare
Debian and Ubuntu must have it
16:42:42
Fare
it's also on cliki.net/cl-launch
Tuesday, 22nd of August 2017, 17:10:30 UTC