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6:16:54
z3t0
stylewarning: honestly I only just began commmon lisp and the only issues i have had are libraries or lack there of for many "common" application uses such as graphics, templating etc
6:17:34
aeth
If you don't think there are many libraries for graphics, you'll be disappointed for literally everything else except maybe web stuff.
6:57:40
stylewarning
People use it commercially for anything from GUIs to embedded systems to backend infrastructure
7:09:02
stylewarning
And, unless I've missed something big, there are no usable libraries for it that cover it anywhere near comprehensively.
7:10:40
stylewarning
It's nice that there's a cliki page, but attempt to use any of the libraries to, say, do the utterly trivial thing of computing the conjugate transpose of a complex float matrix.
7:14:10
stylewarning
The problem will be one of the following: complex numbers not supported, complex numbers broken with FFI, library-included F77 LAPACK is patched or out-of-date, library won't load at all, source code is undocumented and inspecting the source requires you to untangle 11 layers of macros and a home-rolled re-implementation of generic functions
7:19:23
stylewarning
This is just to transpose a matrix and conjugate it's entries. Of course, rolling your own on a 2D array is <= 5 lines of code. But unfortunately the next level of basic things like numerically stable SVD are orders of magnitude more difficult to implement, and almost surely a bad idea.
7:22:54
stylewarning
This sort of project is of course possible to implement in Lisp. But it requires careful programming, excellent interface design skills, a good understanding of compilers and runtimes, and a no-nonsense approach to generalization.
7:23:36
stylewarning
shka: If we—the collective of Lisp programmers—can't even steal LAPACK, there's no hope to stealing SciPy.
7:25:05
stylewarning
shka: I am a little bitter, because this makes my day job harder. And it has been an impediment in 3 professional settings.
7:26:19
Shinmera
A lot of people that are drawn to CL are individualists and avoid anything that would force them to do what they don't want to.
7:28:56
Shinmera
I don't really like it when people talk about what "we" need, or need to do. If you want people to be interested in what you want, do it, and do it well enough to get them interested.
7:30:29
beach
Shinmera: I totally agree about disliking opinions about what "we" need or need to do.
7:30:30
Shinmera
I for one am not a strong enough person to be able to juggle community management alongside coding, so I just don't bother and just write what I want. I don't have the energy to try and convince people to help me out.
7:32:47
Shinmera
Handle input, manage assets, get you a GL context, load collada models, present a shader pipeline, do hierarchical shader composition, and other stuff I forget.
7:33:39
Shinmera
Here's a 4 hour in-depth stream about the engine internals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v6iv_3BLeo&index=8&list=PLkDl6Irujx9Poirb63aATXXWHCVCHwlQA
7:33:56
Shinmera
The playlist also has some gamedev streams in it, which show a more practical approach.
7:35:09
Shinmera
On that note, this weekend there's going to be another Ludum Dare contest and I'll be streaming during that as much as possible.
7:37:11
stylewarning
If anyone is actually interested in some Lisp linear algebra writing, let me know, you can possibly get paid to do it. (Likewise with SBCL development.)
7:43:02
Shinmera
z3t0: As of right now I can't advise the use of Trial for anything but the development of itself. I can't guarantee the stability of any of its components due to the experimental nature of the project.
7:45:35
Shinmera
Most people use git & some hoster for vcs. There's a brazillion testing frameworks out there and more are being made by the day (probably).
7:46:53
Shinmera
But anyhow, vcs and ci are only really useful when your software is already stable.
7:49:08
stylewarning
Reducing interactive features of your software helps stability. Reducing "options at a distance" helps. Reducing generality. Not relying on undocumented APIs. Staying portable or de facto portable.
7:49:54
Shinmera
Documenting your own stuff and getting others to try it also helps tremendously, I find.
7:51:51
Shinmera
Other people are much more useful because they don't have the same cognitive predisposition as you do
10:50:40
Harag
anybody else using emacs 25 on ubuntu 17.04 my slime menu is empty and buffer list is iffy...cant see anything on a google search...
11:01:55
Harag
:loke not an expert but this is a clean install of ubuntu and emacs 25 what would have messed up init.el... quicklisp slime helper?