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18:45:13
phoe
minion: memo for beach: I'll poke you tomorrow morning, I have a remark about your LispOS paper
18:46:02
phoe
barton_: I've noticed you wanted to learn some Lisp; I'll read the logs in a few moments. Do you have any questions about learning Lisp right now, or were they all answered up there?
18:47:41
Younder
thoug he said and i quote: I just wanted to make sure Younder does not spread anymore incorrect information.
18:47:58
barton_
phoe, I think I'm on the right path: I learned the basics of the syntax but I want to get into advanced things by decomposing my projects ("building a web scraper" -> understanding drakma and cl-html5-user and lists)
18:49:17
barton_
Younder, a program that parse web pages (that's my definition but I think everyone call it that way)
18:52:53
burtons
scraping is generally with just one site...crawling is examining the page to find other links to follow
18:57:54
barton_
I have Basic Lisp Techniques, Lisp For The Web, another general-Lisp book, a Scheme book... But I lack theory (for example I'm learning about parsing right now)
18:58:57
p_l
beach: how applicable would cleavir et al be to implementing non-CL language? Essentially CL generating specialised low level code
18:59:16
minion
barton_: please see sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at <http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/> (HTML), <http://www.neilvandyke.org/sicp-texi/> (Texinfo), and <http://twb.ath.cx/ebooks/sicp.pdf> (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at <http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/>
19:00:41
minion
barton_: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
19:02:14
Younder
That s probably a classic by now. I remember when Seibel had us read and correct chapters.
19:08:45
phoe
with the stress that it's second. It's a very good read for someone who is already somewhat competent with CL.
20:25:45
rumbler31
On Lisp is good too, if you feel comfortable enough with lisp syntax to read about meaty topics
20:26:26
rumbler31
it is also available mostly online but someone has a short tutorial how you can take the files and upload them to that bookbinding service to make your own paperback
20:28:27
Josh_2
You can find it using google open directories if you can't get a copy just googling it
20:43:21
burtons
pretty easy to just upload a pdf and make a cover, but On Lisp has really big margins
20:57:33
discardedes
basically, you can get two little peices of oak, drill holes, and a threaded wingnut to clamp stacks of paper togeter
20:58:33
discardedes
all stuff you can get from like home depot, lowes, or any other hardware store....
21:04:59
discardedes
i still have those books and rarely had any binding problems (usually just a loose page that i glued in after the fact). But the bindings never fell apart or any such.
21:05:35
discardedes
and they are very flexible, as in, books stay open without need to hold them open.
21:10:51
nosefouratyou
hello, I am working on a lisp game and I am stuck trying to figure out how defcallback works. This is what I am doing basically: https://gist.github.com/nosefouratyou/0aaaa9fa112d9857cfefe22aa57e31f5
21:10:53
discardedes
i imagine its some transfer of the metaphor for "a place where counting occures".
21:11:26
discardedes
like, maybe things where put on the counter in order to take inventory or some such....
21:12:09
nosefouratyou
in this https://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/cmu-user-letter.pdf they mention calling it through alien:defcallback but that doesn't seem to work either.
21:12:44
discardedes
which makes it seem like counter would have been the name for cashier, but also, why not call the table that too
21:12:52
varjag
"In Australian English, the term counter is generally reserved for a surface of this type that forms a boundary between a space for public use and a space for workers to carry out service tasks. "
21:13:14
discardedes
because if you "pay at the counter" it might be ambiguous if you are talking about the worker or the table.
21:16:44
discardedes
because there is some relation between inventory crossing from one side to another
21:19:41
discardedes
sooo... i was thinking about appling OOP to lisp programs, and i think i came up with a simple rule of thumb....
21:20:43
discardedes
basically, just program how you normally would, and when you want to have two things behave uniformly within your program, like, you want to add something else that wasnt there but treat it uniformly with the other thing already there, you can introduce OO technique.
21:20:56
nosefouratyou
borodust: do you have any experience with defcallback? this is what I am running into https://gist.github.com/nosefouratyou/0aaaa9fa112d9857cfefe22aa57e31f5
21:21:47
discardedes
i think of this as method oriented, because in essense, you have a function (or functions), and you later decide you want to make them methods.
21:22:37
discardedes
it seems WAY more productive than trying to beat your head against the wall trying to create a class system from scratch that is supposed to be useful.
21:23:20
Reinisch
nosefouratyou: sorry no one is helping you. I personally don't know a thing about defcallback. Best of luck. I'm sure sooner or later someone on here will know enough to help you!
21:34:22
varjag
if you go further than just playing in repl, you typically put a dependency for cffi (or whatever system you use) in your project's system definition
21:42:12
discardedes
I came across an interesting looking title today, "Programming Paradigms in Lisp", but there is no online version and the book is astronomically priced.
21:55:18
nosefouratyou
I am currently working on this: https://github.com/nosefouratyou/solsim/blob/master/solsim.lisp and instead of an error I get "Lisp connection closed unexpectedly". What am I doing wrong?
21:57:47
_death
nosefouratyou: there's no need to use defcallback here.. you can add a method to glut:motion
21:58:57
nosefouratyou
I get this from my messages buffer: https://gist.github.com/nosefouratyou/5e8ae8ef6b61db56e9f5e4d3757d1e49
22:00:21
nosefouratyou
sorry, here is the inferior-lisp https://gist.github.com/nosefouratyou/6de1edabce2fa57f8f9377e4ceb65834
22:09:14
_death
nosefouratyou: here's some old code you may find interesting as an example https://github.com/death/consix/blob/master/gob.lisp
22:23:30
_death
I thought about writing a new (small) one sometime soon.. but idea begets idea and soon there's a flood of project ideas, so we'll see how it goes
22:49:37
phoe
nightly reminder: there are three tasks posted on the lisp guild page, available for anyone who'd like to grab some experience with a relatively simple task on real world code. https://github.com/Lisp-Guild/lisp-todo/projects/1
3:45:30
beach
p_l: I think Cleavir cold be used for other dynamic languages if that is what you mean.
5:45:13
p_l
BusFactor1: you need to compile it yourself from source, or whatever third party packaging Mac users use
5:54:21
BusFactor1
it just doesn't seem to recognize how to find it using DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH so I thought there might be some trick