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18:37:26
phoe
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/engineering/running-lisp-in-production/ is a famous blogpost by vseloved
4:28:59
cer0
yeah ): ik, i'm starting with land of lisp, but my progress it's a little bit slow with that one.
4:29:40
minion
cer0: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
4:31:50
beach
I do research in programming-language implementation, and Common Lisp is both my target and my tool.
4:32:27
minion
cer0: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
4:42:17
cer0
beach: that's cool, really cool. sorry i didn't recognized you, you seem to be really important among the lisp community ( :
4:44:46
cer0
well, writing a re-implementation of cl must not be a easy task, and seems a lot of people found it useful
4:46:22
cer0
I barely wrote a lisp once, ahah, like, the last year i tried, but, my C skills are so bad. I was following this... buildyourownlisp.com
4:48:51
beach
After my Masters degree, I worked in industry for a few years, and I noticed how insufficient the level of knowledge was in the developers. In fact, insufficiently low for the task at hand. So I quit and did a PhD. The rest is the "traditional" career path.
4:50:38
beach
So, I looked at the first page of buildyourownlisp.com, and I am still amused by the fact that it is often assumed that you need a lower-level language in order to build a Lisp system.
4:53:54
no-defun-allowed
Legend has it #c said the code was terrible, and it manages to screw up evaluation and scoping in terrible ways.
4:54:56
no-defun-allowed
It uses something...sort of like fexprs in place of macros, but it wouldn't work with lexical scoping as there is no environment passed through.
4:55:22
no-defun-allowed
Oh, and LIST doesn't evaluate its arguments, leaving CAR and CDR to do that!
4:56:05
no-defun-allowed
The introduction says these changes are merely "different", and we're all old grimpy farts for complaining.
4:57:02
no-defun-allowed
We researched in #lispcafe, from memory someone that did a PhD in computer graphics, and works in game development.
4:58:32
no-defun-allowed
*grumpy rather. My phone felt like autocorrecting this morning, but not now.
4:59:32
no-defun-allowed
One should be terrified by a book that introduces macros before variables and functions.
5:00:30
no-defun-allowed
Well, he may be in computer graphics, and hopefully not while using C for it.
5:01:55
no-defun-allowed
(See http://buildyourownlisp.com/chapter15_standard_library#conditional_functions for CAR evaluating the CAR of its argument.)
5:04:13
cer0
tbh when i started with python and encountered Fibonacci recursive function my brain couldn't handle it, but now, i'm really comfortable with recursion (:
5:04:31
no-defun-allowed
If I could suggest one thing, it's to hold off writing an implementation of a (small) Lisp before writing some non-trivial code in it, because then you'll have an intuition for what's going on when you write the implementation and test it.
5:05:24
beach
cer0: Great! Recursion is not used much in Common Lisp, and certainly not for linear structures. It is mainly used for things like trees, where the depth is limited, and the alternative would make the code incomprehensible.
5:06:52
cer0
no-defun-allowed: thanks for the tip, i didn't knew it wasn't a good material for starting with cl or lisp in general.
5:07:27
no-defun-allowed
I wrote a crappy compiler about two months in, because I was convinced Lisp implementations didn't compile as they don't dump images like batch compilers.