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17:12:54
jcowan
Depends on if you think of it as a symbol (runtime object) or an identifier. In the latter view you are saying "In this scope of code foo (imported from module baz) will be known as bar, but it is still really foo."
19:08:23
aeth
beach: Is there ever a chance that SBCL and CCL get first class global environments or is it too tied to SICL?
19:10:18
beach
I have no control over SBCL or CCL. It is highly unlikely that their respective maintainers will accept that work though.
19:11:27
beach
Maybe, just maybe, after SICL is finished and people understand the value of having first-class global environments it could change.
19:11:52
beach
I'm off to spend time with my (admittedly small) family. I'll be back tomorrow morning (UTC+1).
19:12:19
aeth
I'm just thinking about it being a similar situation to e.g. package local nicknames, which were around for forever, but that most people didn't use until (nearly) everyone supported it.
19:25:20
phoe
If someone implements it, I doubt CCL maintainers will not accept the PR - provided that it doesn't regress anything.
19:28:54
Xach
New things often require good understanding and ongoing maintenance - that can be an incentive not to accept them.
19:32:33
aeth
Xach: New things whose purpose is compatibility with other implementations are probably more likely to be accepted, though.
19:33:21
aeth
I'm surprised no one has ported sb-unicode, with a portable portability library on top, yet.
19:35:46
phoe
Xach: I could someday try hammering the change into CCL once it's there, and writing a test suite for it. And possibly maintain a forked version until the change stabilizes.
19:58:30
Xach
aeth: for some, "compatibility with other implementations" does not always align with "keep implementation maintainable by a very small team and keep customers happy"
4:04:57
beach
aeth: First-class global environments are not just a small extra feature the way package-local nicknames are. They require a large part of the existing system to be restructured and a lot of the code to be rewritten.
4:06:55
beach
phoe: So I don't think first-class global environments would be represented by a single pull request. If I were to implement first-class global environments in some existing implementation, I would make gradual changes over a long period of time.
4:13:23
beach
Plus, with first-class global environments, there is a (small) performance cost for things like SYMBOL-FUNCTION with a symbol that is not known at compile time. Maintainers of implementations that want maximum performance in all situations would not be willing to accept that.
4:18:45
Oladon
Anyone here used spinneret for HTML templating? I'm trying to figure out the best way to implement nestable templates, and his deftag doesn't seem quite right.