7:28:56ShinmeraI don't really like it when people talk about what "we" need, or need to do. If you want people to be interested in what you want, do it, and do it well enough to get them interested.
7:29:05ShinmeraIt's going to be really really hard, though.
7:30:29beachShinmera: I totally agree about disliking opinions about what "we" need or need to do.
7:30:30ShinmeraI for one am not a strong enough person to be able to juggle community management alongside coding, so I just don't bother and just write what I want. I don't have the energy to try and convince people to help me out.
7:31:25z3t0Shinmera: trial looks interesting, how can i get started with it?
7:32:47ShinmeraHandle input, manage assets, get you a GL context, load collada models, present a shader pipeline, do hierarchical shader composition, and other stuff I forget.
7:33:19z3t0alright thanks, that seems like a lot of stuff
7:33:39ShinmeraHere's a 4 hour in-depth stream about the engine internals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v6iv_3BLeo&index=8&list=PLkDl6Irujx9Poirb63aATXXWHCVCHwlQA
7:33:56ShinmeraThe playlist also has some gamedev streams in it, which show a more practical approach.
7:37:11stylewarningIf anyone is actually interested in some Lisp linear algebra writing, let me know, you can possibly get paid to do it. (Likewise with SBCL development.)
7:38:36ShinmeraMight want to ask on /r/lisp about that too.
7:40:39stylewarningI might cast a wider net as time goes on
7:43:02Shinmeraz3t0: As of right now I can't advise the use of Trial for anything but the development of itself. I can't guarantee the stability of any of its components due to the experimental nature of the project.
7:43:16ShinmeraIn a few years it might be at a point where things are finalised and documented.
7:45:35ShinmeraMost people use git & some hoster for vcs. There's a brazillion testing frameworks out there and more are being made by the day (probably).
7:46:11stylewarningUnderstanding your software's scope and interface is important
7:46:13ShinmeraAs for CI, some use Travis with Roswell.
7:49:08stylewarningReducing interactive features of your software helps stability. Reducing "options at a distance" helps. Reducing generality. Not relying on undocumented APIs. Staying portable or de facto portable.
7:49:54ShinmeraDocumenting your own stuff and getting others to try it also helps tremendously, I find.
7:50:50stylewarningThe best way to find and kill bugs is to use what you wrote. (:
7:51:09ShinmeraWell, using it yourself only helps that much since you have certain goals with it.
7:51:51ShinmeraOther people are much more useful because they don't have the same cognitive predisposition as you do
7:52:15stylewarningUsing your library as any other consumer I've found helpful.
7:52:24stylewarningLike using your library from quicklisp
11:28:56Harag:loke ...turns out to be something in my .emacs ... now need to hunt it down :(
14:07:01stylewarningshka: good LAPACK bindings are hard to do portably, require one to know how to load foreign libraries—system provided, possibly written in Fortran
14:07:33shkabut it surely is easier than trying to implement everything from scratch
14:08:35stylewarningIt would be a difficult endeavor to rewrite LAPACK, yes. But if you used pure Lisp, you avoid tons of issues that you only get by binding with LAPACK
14:08:49Xachsuch as the irritatingly good performance?
14:11:07stylewarningYou can get within a single digit number of orders of magnitude (<5) from a portable BLAS/LAPACK
14:13:36Haragwas having issues with my slime menu in ubuntu 17.04 and emacs 25 in a fresh install, thought it was my .emacs loading something that messes it up but turns out that ubuntu uses /usr/bin/emacs25 and when you use that menus go for ball of .... change it to /usr/bin/emacs and slime menus work fine... heres to an hour waisted
14:15:47stylewarningI went through the exercise of writing a portable but fast linear algebra library. All of BLAS (essentially) + a good number of LAPACK essentials. But it was exceedingly hard and weeks and weeks of full-time paid work
14:16:26stylewarningAnd the further I got in, the harder it was
14:26:29stylewarningShinmera: those macros are at least understandable compared to https://github.com/matlisp/matlisp/blob/master/src/base/coordinate-accessor.lisp
14:34:33JuanDaughertycoloring within the lines of CLOS may be beyond the capabilities of the average bear
14:38:31stylewarningAnyway, definitely not looking to put down that library and that person's hard work, but it is a good example of a different point on this spectrum of library quality and construction
15:14:59beachI wonder whether that was a list of things JuanDaugherty avoids: 1. disputations. 2. me. 3. other nasty stuffs. That would imply that I am some nasty stuff.
15:15:33ShinmeraMaking a wrong statement, ignoring questions about it, and then calling people questioning small minded sure is quite the stunt.
18:06:14phoe_I just deleted CL-YESQL from ~/quicklisp/local-projects because it is now available in Quicklisp. How can I tell Quicklisp, or ASDF, that it should fetch the project from Quicklisp instead of looking for it in local-projects, without restarting the Lisp image?
18:06:50flip214phoe_: IIRC quicklisp will see automatically that the ASD is gone, and re-fetch as necessary.
19:03:58White_Flameit apparently has a very fast bignum library, and it tends to be compilable on many odd varieties of systems starting from just a C compiler
19:04:00phoe_Things CLISP is good for. Strong sides.
19:04:41phoe_And also, it is an interpreted implementation, by default. So it does not have any compilation overhead, which is good for scripts. This, and its portability like White_Flame mentioned.
19:09:58White_Flamedavide89v: the preferred development environment is Emacs + SLIME (connector between emacs & a running lisp), which provides a lot of really good interactivity
19:11:42miniondavide89v: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
19:21:00flip214davide89v: depending on how much effort you already spent with vim, you could also try vim+slimv. that's similar (albeit not as good) to emacs+slime.