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8:52:48
halogenandtoast
parjanya: Sure, and I'm sure my reputation on #lisp is forever tarnished, but at some point there has to be some understand of how to ween someone on to lisp.
8:53:02
fiddlerwoaroof
halogenandtoast: one of the big lies is that there's anything that's "just text"
8:54:13
fiddlerwoaroof
I'm just pointing out that your ideal world where you have text files and binary files is impossible
8:54:33
fiddlerwoaroof
Because a text file is just a binary file that has been interpreted into some useful format
8:54:34
parjanya
I’m a newbie just as you are, I suppose, and all those detais do help me... a lot. I guess you also have this urgency to write something and get on with it, but it seems lisp doesn’t quite work like that
8:54:59
halogenandtoast
parjanya: I'm not currently writing anything in lisp. I dabble in it from time to time.
8:55:07
fiddlerwoaroof
Anyways, if you want a good introduction to writing to lisp, you might check out pcl
8:55:28
minion
halogenandtoast: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
8:56:29
fiddlerwoaroof
That's one of the best programming language introductions I've read, along with Leo Brodie's Starting Forth and (a while ago) Real World Haskell/Ocaml
8:56:45
halogenandtoast
fiddlerwoaroof: We have a pretty common joke in the haskell community about monads - "A monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors"
8:57:29
fiddlerwoaroof
halogenandtoast: yeah, heard that one before. Haskellers seem to be a bit notorious about complicated terminology ;)
8:59:04
fiddlerwoaroof
Not really, in most of the cases they're just fancy words for simple concepts :)
9:00:02
fiddlerwoaroof
But, also, it's generally important to use words the way the group of people you're talking to uses them
9:00:49
halogenandtoast
fiddlerwoaroof: Sure I agree a common language for describing things is important.
9:04:46
halogenandtoast
Bike: I'm done to be honest, I got frustrated and went about it the wrong way. In my frustration I thought maybe lisp wasn't for me because I wouldn't fit in with the community and beach in his frustration with me was happy to confirm.
9:06:59
halogenandtoast
But I feel like I'm far less likely to get any help now anyways. As it seems you and Beach are fairly knowledgeable and I've essentially "shat where I eat"
9:07:52
Bike
i have very little emotional energy, so i try to spend none of it on arguments about syntax or whatever. if you ask something about lisp i'll answer.
9:09:21
halogenandtoast
Anyways I'm sorry to the channel for essentially creating a toxic environment, at least this isn't #c
9:11:00
antoszka
halogenandtoast: just idle around for a while – this is actually a very on-topic practical and helpful channel.
9:11:57
antoszka
and what's wrong with the GNU one (a lot is wrong with it, but we don't know what bothers you in particular)
9:11:58
halogenandtoast
antoszka: At this point, it's one that doesn't use lisp for configuration :p
9:14:12
antoszka
i'm not a fan of the Photoshop license, but I use it, because it does the job I bought it for :). Not really, most of the stuff we find useful for Lisp programming only works in GNU emacs as far as I know
9:16:14
antoszka
I'd love to have a useful climacs one day (which I think, incidentally, is one of the things beach is working on)
9:16:36
sirkmatija_
maybe a bit offtopic, but what minor/major modes do you use for lisp programming in emacs? I only use slime, paredit and rainbow-delimiters in addition to what gnu emacs uses by default for lisp files.
9:19:50
easye
sirkmatija_: Not really related to Common Lisp editing ipso facto, but having a "fuzzy" completion minor mode like ido for unifying buffers/files is a key part of my Emacs workflow.
9:22:07
antoszka
halogenandtoast: i've actually been enjoying spacemacs more or less since the dawn of the project
9:22:17
easye
Roughly equivalent in functionality, but I have not done a review of helm to compare (I migrated to ido from something else that was being obsoleted that I cannot remember right now)
9:22:39
halogenandtoast
antoszka: I used it for a bit, I liked it, but then I decided I should learn what it's doing for me and configured my own emacs instance
9:24:03
antoszka
halogenandtoast: I don't care as long as it works ;). And I think it works really well. There's also Portacle, an OOTB „portable” emacs + lisp environment.
9:25:22
halogenandtoast
I don't remember why it was crashing, but I also wanted an excuse to do some lisp
9:27:09
antoszka
halogenandtoast: emacs lisp is not the pretties of lisps, I don't touch it unless I badly need to.
9:30:28
antoszka
fukamachi seems to be very proficient at getting code out, but he doesn't seem to document much nor maintain the code
9:32:28
fiddlerwoaroof
The wookie web server also has a pretty good web framework, if you use it directly
9:35:01
sirkmatija_
hey about ningle, how do you serve static files? do you just put them into /www directory like with hunchentoot?
9:37:08
fiddlerwoaroof
sirkmatija_: https://github.com/fiddlerwoaroof/whitespace/blob/master/demo.lisp#L406
9:37:26
fiddlerwoaroof
That project is horrible in several ways, it was my very first biggish lisp project
9:42:40
sirkmatija_
I am at the stage where all my projects are either horrible biggish or horrible smallish projects
9:43:15
fiddlerwoaroof
Yeah, project architecture is surprisingly difficult, even at a fairly small scale
12:12:03
fiddlerwoaroof
Normal climacs does run and I've heard of people that use it, but I don't know how feature-complete it is
12:28:10
parjanya
I’m mostly curious about the GUI... is there anything I can look to see how it works?
14:11:23
beach
(First) Climacs is already a bit better than Emacs, but not enough for people to want to switch.
14:28:21
beach
There is a lot of code factoring in there. It depends on McCLIM and a CLIM library called ESA (for Emacs-Style Application).
14:29:30
beach
And it is not written the way I would write it today. There is a lot of :USE going on, so it is hard to figure out where each symbol comes from, at least by just looking at the code.
14:31:12
beach
So the code in this repository: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Climacs does not work and does not reflect what you get in Quicklisp.
14:33:05
beach
And in https://github.com/robert-strandh/Climacs it is still first Climacs, except a failed attempt to clean it up.
14:33:59
beach
This repository: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Second-Climacs contains a very embryonic version of Second Climacs. It can't easily be installed and executed yet.
14:38:00
beach
An X11 resource is a 32-bit number, but it has a few bits guaranteed to be 0 so that it can be encoded as a Lisp fixnum.
14:40:45
beach
Now, (first) Climacs depends on McCLIM, and currently the CLX backend is the only one truly working for McCLIM, but there is work going on for a Windows backend, and also for a framebuffer backend that could be used with other display servers.
14:43:41
beach
You are in for some work. But we will help you out if you have questions. For stuff like that, you may have better luck in the #clim channel.
14:46:07
beach
The CLX backend for McCLIM can currently work in two different ways. The old way is that each CLIM sheet is mapped to an X11 windows. The new way is that only a top-level window is created, and McCLIM is managing its own nested sheets.
14:49:01
beach
It's the new way, because it is closer to what other display servers would offer, so the code that lets McCLIM control nested sheets needs to work well in order to enable us to created other backends.
14:52:20
beach
The code for CLX is currently maintained by sharplispers: https://github.com/sharplispers/clx
14:53:19
beach
... and this is the current repository for McCLIM: https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM
14:54:56
beach
jackdaniel, who is currently maintaining McCLIM, has done a great job factoring the code, fixing bugs, merging improvements from others, and also fixing CLX problems when they were encountered.
15:20:11
varjag
just the other day i loaded som textbook examples from late 1980s into sbcl, and they worked without modifications
15:28:57
varjag
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/18000379?q&sort=holdings+desc&_=1487950116513&versionId=39949380
17:51:08
drmeister
I'm making progress running Cando/Clasp in a docker container. But swank is closing the connection again and in slime I get this message:
17:51:19
drmeister
Error running 'timer `slime-process-available-input': (error "Selecting deleted buffer")
18:17:06
fortitude
does it seem like a bad idea to generate gensyms at runtime to use as task/thread IDs?
18:17:22
fortitude
it's not actually interning anything, but I don't think *GENSYM-COUNTER* is thread-safe
18:51:24
pjb
fortitude: just use (incf *next-thread-id*) Why would you need to allocate a new symbol?
18:54:31
fortitude
I assume for readability; I wrote this code quite some time ago, and can't recall exactly what I was thinking
18:55:03
fortitude
it's questionable whether I even need a task ID, since you could always just return the task object itself unless you were serializing (which I'm not)
19:17:00
pjb
fortitude: it's usually easier to remember and reference small numbers or strings, than object identities.
19:44:04
fortitude
is there a common convention for including/excluding multiple items with #+ and #-?
20:06:34
|3b|
ACTION notes that most keyword arguments aren't on *features* so you can just do #+:a 1 to get rid of :a and 1
20:26:55
burtons
(var ...) declerations are being rendered as var(..) function calls; this doesn't happen on LW.
20:31:34
drmeister
Has anyone used cl-jupyter recently and would have a few minutes to answer a few questions about it?