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7:33:02
no-defun-allowed
Would there be any interest in adopting a code of conduct for SICL? I don't think it would be a big deal, given that #sicl for example is usually polite and on-topic, but a friend of a friend reminded me of an unfortunate connotation with Lisp programmers, and it could help change that.
7:49:35
beach
What kind of "code of conduct" do you have in mind. And what does it mean for it to be "for SICL"?
7:53:07
beach
And when you say "I don't think it would be a big deal", do you mean that it would be easy to adopt such a thing, or that it probably won't be necessary?
7:54:20
moon-child
I don't know. Just interpreting what I think no-defun-allowed might have been referring to
7:54:32
beach
no-defun-allowed: And when you say "it could help change that", I don't know what "it" and "that" refer to.
7:56:01
beach
I must be unusually stupid today, because there are so many things in this utterance that I just can't parse.
8:01:53
Gnuxie[m]
The connotation is probably to do with lisps age and the elitist lisp weenie stereo type
8:02:27
no-defun-allowed
The code of conduct is just a document describing the expectations for participating in #sicl (as well as e.g. GitHub issues, among other platforms for discussion), and what one should do if they think someone is not following the expectations.
8:02:35
beach
So am I to understand that the suggestion is to claim that SICL is not Lisp so as to avoid such connotations?
8:04:59
no-defun-allowed
I say it would be easy to adopt because, yes, SICL people are rather polite, and it is just a matter of writing down what has already been agreed upon. There are also templates for codes such as the Contributor Covenant, so it would not be necessary to write a new one.
8:11:24
no-defun-allowed
What I heard was just the opposite of how the participants of #sicl behave, which I will summarise as "impolite". It would be silly to say SICL is not Lisp, and that is not anyone's intent.
8:15:08
beach
I sort of understand. I don't think such a thing is urgent, given that (as you pointed out) people are quite polite and mostly stay on topic at the moment. Furthermore, I think #sicl requires people to be registered, which I take it is not the case for #lisp.
8:15:55
beach
Many of the off-topic discussions here are still interesting, and it is perfectly fine with me to talk about Eclector, Clouseau, Common Lisp IDE, Second Climacs, etc.
8:48:37
no-defun-allowed
It might be useful for someone who has not joined #sicl yet. I have had a few cases where I could not encourage someone to pick up Common Lisp, because they thought the community was less polite than other communities. Though I suppose it is unlikely a non-Lisp programmer would take up interest in a Common Lisp compiler and implementation.
8:51:45
beach
Also, apparently #lisp is way more polite than most IRC channels. Or so I hear. Newcomers are often surprised to learn how helpful #lisp participants are.
9:22:41
beach
jdz: Oh, that's very kind of you to say so. Sometimes I feel I am too cranky, and should avoid attempting to help people.
9:25:46
jdz
beach: We're all just people in the end. But I admire your patience quite often, and think you are setting a very good standard of communication on technical matters.
9:43:17
beach
Well, this morning was fun. From Bleujour, I ordered an OCTO with 32GB of memory, 500GB of SSD, and a processor with 4 cores. I also ordered an OCTO N4000 for my (admittedly small) family, and two USB C to DVI cables for my old monitors. All that for a little more than 1k€. Goodbye towers! Goodbye Ubuntu!
9:44:22
beach
They are located in Toulouse, so I can send my favorite coauthor to fuss at them if something goes wrong. She is from Toulouse and often goes to visit her family there.
9:44:34
no-defun-allowed
What OS do the OCTO computers come with then? My completely random guess would be Debian.
9:48:33
no-defun-allowed
Maybe the AUD/EUR exchange rate changes my perception; €1,000 is equivalent to about AU$1550 right now. Although, apparently many components are somewhat more expensive now due to silicon shortages.
9:48:35
beach
Even avoiding the hassle of burning a DVD for the OS, installing the OS, and driving to pick up my computer (which I had to do around 5 times for my existing, crashing, tower) is worth hundreds of € to me.
9:51:13
beach
Each trip took an hour or so. Multiply by 5 and the hourly salary of a full professor, and it quickly adds up, though granted we are not paid nearly as much here as in many other western countries.
15:48:45
beach
Everything in assembly is a sequence of instructions with some words of data from time to time.
15:49:21
beach
A function, if translated from a high-level language, would be called with a CALL or JSR instruction, and the function would return to the caller with a RET instruction.
16:00:49
pjb
beach: in the extreme case of a 1-instruction processor, you don't have to store any bit to encode the operation code. You just need to store the addresses of the arguments or the jump.
16:03:03
pjb
This is why compilers have to perform two kinds of analysis and optimization: data flow analysis and optimization, and code flow analysis and optimization.
17:33:13
ebrasca
jackdaniel: food give you time and you may weste this time. Food don't give you understanding.
17:35:20
jackdaniel
ebrasca: you can say exactly the same thing about the philosophy - it may be a huge waste of time and may not give you understanding. people are far too often seduced by their own words