15:08:54Shinmeramood: help me out of this hell, I beg you
19:20:53moodShinmera: I'd generally think "opportunistic encryption", like STARTTLS, is a bit of a minefield and thus undesirable. But I don't know particularly much about this stuff
19:21:59moodEncryption is rather terrible in the CL ecosystem, sadly...
19:50:06moodThe term that comes to mind is STRIPTLS
19:50:27moodIt's probably fairly doable to overcome, but still
19:52:37ShinmeraWell, STRIPTLS just means you don't announce that the server supports STARTTLS, thus forcing the client to downgrade
19:53:27ShinmeraThe problem here lying in the backwards-compatibility of allowing there to be no TLS
19:53:46ShinmeraIf you force the server to support TLS this falls away
19:55:20moodBut then what's the benefit of STARTTLS over just negotiating a secure connection in the first place?
19:55:53ShinmeraAllowing the client not to support it.
19:56:30ShinmeraAs usual with network protocols, there's going to be a lot more clients than there ever will be servers. So I deem it fine to put more burden on the server writer than the client writer.
19:59:13moodSo server would still support unencrypted connections?