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23:17:22
SAL9000
there's filters -- we can send 2 messages, the 2nd of which contains the base64 data and is tagged lichat_hide
23:18:04
SAL9000
display hooks are an option as well -- the message can contain the base64 data but then display hook prevents it from being actually printed
23:18:30
Shinmera
Well, in any case it sounds like a lotta work for something we have to fork, too :/
23:19:05
SAL9000
The general in-band communciation issue might come up again, thus me thinking it through
23:21:33
SAL9000
yeah. terminals suck but their limitations are also part of their power, for lack of better terms?
23:22:00
Shinmera
Idunno. I feel like for 'real' applications like weechat the scope has been exceeded.
23:22:02
SAL9000
e.g. shove any tty app into tmux, add an sshd and suddenly you have what the modern web would call a "cloud" app
23:23:03
SAL9000
there is the example of emacs/vim, both of which adopted GUI interfaces without totally leaving behind their terminal "heritage" :-)
23:23:55
Shinmera
but emacs also sucks and is used for a lot of stuff it really shouldn't be used for.
23:24:13
SAL9000
"Emacs is an OS in search of a good text editor" is more true than we'd like it to be
23:25:28
SAL9000
kick the old dynamic variables stuff to the curb, give it a real JIT, replace the buffer struct... and emacs could fly again
23:25:44
Shinmera
at least it's getting closer to common lisp now that rms is mostly out of the picture
23:26:54
SAL9000
they tried to get into mainline again sometime in 2019, were willing to bend over backwards quite far
23:27:08
SAL9000
I don't have the full picture, but "lol no" seems to have been the response from upstream
23:27:54
SAL9000
I'd be more understanding of the GPL religion in this regard if there was an actually good alternative that they're accepting of
23:28:12
SAL9000
btrfs is still a joke, bcachefs is nowhere near production ready, all the other fs aren't bitrot-safe
23:28:53
SAL9000
[any fs] + mdadm + dm-integrity *maybe* but whole-disk scrub even if you've only used 1%, etc. etc.
23:29:43
SAL9000
plus the many (admittedly, old) horror stories about "oops, your entire fs is hosed"
23:29:51
Shinmera
I've never used RAID on my systems, but have been using btrfs on my workstation since last year.
23:30:39
SAL9000
if you're willing to play with out-of-tree modules, I recommend giving ZFS a try in a VM or something. Poke around, fake disk corruption with dd, see how it reacts.
23:30:52
Shinmera
Ii imagine FS have a really big chicken and egg problem. nobody wants to use a n fs that's unstable.
23:31:44
SAL9000
I recently read about how -- apparently -- Linus jumping on the btrfs hype train real early led to a premature freeze of the on-disk format, which seems to be screwing them over.
23:32:25
SAL9000
if new fs provides novel benefits I'm sure there'll be people willing to evaluate it, at least with automated testing and such
23:32:54
SAL9000
e.g. zfs, although not new, has "sponsorship" in the form of integration testing (and production use) at LLNL among other places
23:33:26
Shinmera
We're probably gonna use Arch+ZFS on the new server setup, whenever we get to doing that.
23:33:58
Shinmera
I want to not have to do any of it, so if you could do it all for me, that'd be great, thanks in advance
23:35:48
Shinmera
re-setting up vpn, ldap, all email shit, webserver, mastodon, postgres, etc etc etc.
23:37:32
SAL9000
most weekdays I should be "free" after about 4-5pm? shit lands on my head with disturbing regularity though
23:38:22
SAL9000
regarding distro stuff -- if you want rolling-release with minimal sysops PAIN, and you're willing to deal with compile times, +1 to Gentoo+ZFS
23:41:46
SAL9000
all good. either I landed on the wrong page or the mumble site now looks disturbingly proprietary
23:43:36
SAL9000
Gentoo on ZFS lets me take a copy-on-write clone of /, chroot into that, "stage" the update by building binpkgs -- and thus, not disrupting the running system until the last moment.
23:44:03
SAL9000
if all goes well, I copy the portage state + binpkgs out to the real system and install.
23:45:00
SAL9000
Arch is simpler because no compilation, but Gentoo lets me mix versions of things if I need to and disable the stupid shit with USE-flags
23:47:50
SAL9000
right. the main benefit when it comes to server systems... the "stability threshold" is higher.
9:30:07
Shinmera
SAL9000: thoughts on this: currently all the shirakumo-* extensions have updates with their types in the lichat package, rather than their own package. I've been thinking about whether to segregate them into their own package, but that would require changing /all/ the clients out there.
10:50:13
SAL9000
Shinmera: maybe do that with a major update of the spec, integrating some (or all) of the extensions into core?
10:54:24
SAL9000
If you did that kind of move, yeah, the stuff that becomes core stays in lichat but the *rest* would move to their own package (or lichat-extension?)
10:55:25
Shinmera
I mean, the right move is obviously to move the extensions into the shirakumo package