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15:22:18
Colleen
reader.tymoon.eu/article/382 Website (XHTML), Title: The Beginnings of Combat - April Kandria Update - 妖怪世捨て人
16:06:53
selwyn
hm, maybe i'll try a 'c++ for java developers' tutorial. i suspect that many tutorials are not actually that good though
16:07:36
Shinmera
I'm not a 'book learner', I mostly learn by looking at examples and writing my own crap (badly)
16:10:40
selwyn
i would like to reimplement bignums in clasp, it's a small project that has been discussed for a while now
16:12:42
Shinmera
I still remember me and the rest of the #lisp channel telling him that it would take many years to do it back when he first started.
16:12:52
selwyn
yes the plan is to switch to calling low level gmp routines instead of the c++ interface, in order to avoid the overhead of destructors being called
16:14:42
Shinmera
usually people don't use that much more, and most of it is not //that// contrived.
16:15:46
Shinmera
The most frequent thing that isn't in C that you'll see in C++ is by-reference parameters.
16:16:44
Shinmera
void foo(whatever ¶m); which allows you access param features with . rather than ->, and assign to param with = rather than *param =
16:18:07
Shinmera
then there's the standard library, which is much larger, and for which you'll just have to look up the reference online
16:18:41
Shinmera
finally, templates are now a commonplace thing, but those too are pretty obvious (most of the time) when you've seen generics in other languages.
16:20:15
Shinmera
by reference parameters? kinda yeah. You're literally passing in a reference of a variable, rather than a value copyy.
16:36:59
selwyn
i remember being impressed and intimidated by c++ when i was like 11 because it was 'the game development language'
17:02:59
Shinmera
and as with all things it's hard to break the mold, not because C++ is clearly superior, but simply because replicating anything that would match the toolage and features would take too much time even in a much better language.
17:04:41
Shinmera
Unlike beach I do not have the optimism (or delusion) that Lisp will be able to recreate the things people have written in other languages, simply because of that.
17:08:18
selwyn
if i had a lot of money that i wouldn't miss, then i would sponsor and promote a lisp operating system, lisp AAA game engine etc, because it would be nice to have such things and they might actually take off
17:08:21
Shinmera
The industry will continue to use C++ because that's what the experts know, because all the engines are written in C++, because the people that wrote it knew C++, etc.
17:10:12
Shinmera
And that's if you focus on making an engine for a particular game, not a general-purpose one like Unity or Unreal.
17:19:31
selwyn
the use of python in scientific computing is somewhat analogous. but it's the fact that many good scientists genuinely don't believe that anything could be better that upsets me, more than any feature of python itself
17:21:09
Shinmera
scientists don't know how to code, so you shouldn't trust them to know what's good either.
17:21:42
Shinmera
even people that know how to code are typically very narrow minded about what languages can do, because it's really hard to think outside of the vocabulary you know of how to think.
17:28:00
selwyn
i certainly don't trust them to know that! but the sheer amount of time wasted is very annoying
17:28:51
selwyn
everyone in my office (including me) has wasted at least half a day at some point trying to get an unbroken python environment for scientific computing
17:29:03
Gnuxie[m]
yeah, i think that people who work with C++/Java also can have a sort of limit on some (programming?) imagination? creativity? because of that, which is only sad
17:30:51
Shinmera
Just cause we know a couple more paradigms having learnt CL doesn't mean we don't fall into the same trap of being unable to imagine things beyond those boundaries of knowledge.
17:34:23
selwyn
have to say i'm impressed by the kandria animations, they wouldn't look out of place in a game already
17:34:29
Shinmera
I really, really hate how cumbersome the UI is and how cut off it is for free tiers
17:41:27
luis
ugh. I can't do proper releases until I get my Thinkpad, which is in another city a lockdown away.
17:43:54
Shinmera
Qtools manages it pretty well, but only because it knows a lot more about the system and forces you to write in a certain way
17:45:26
Shinmera
Probably the best bet for making it work is to use an immediate mode UI as the back, since there the deallocation/allocation cycle is very clear, though that obviously has its own problems.
17:46:44
luis
Oh, CommonQt is working well enough, thankfully. We just need to track leaks down from time to time. ;)
17:48:00
Shinmera
Tracking leaks is thankfully a lot easier in an interactive language than otherwise