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8:01:29
White_Flame
flip214: maybe not even starting with asm, but introducing it after the fact. People would have a mind to rederive the higher level stuff and might have an inkling to have broader ideas
8:02:56
moon-child
‘It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.’
8:12:05
White_Flame
one thing that comes up in conversation a lot here, regarding people who basically code via stack exchange and trying libraries, is who writes the libraries? how do they do so?
8:12:16
White_Flame
only when you want more than what's offered are you required to think of how to create something new
8:13:02
White_Flame
I haven't gone through the "From NAND to Tetris" course, but I would hope it gets into some of these ideas
8:33:42
beach
Quite well thank you. I think I almost finished register allocation. Some methods might still be missing but that should be easy to fix. You?
8:42:17
Josh_2
Yes its going quite well thanks, the last couple of days I have been getting a lesson in how to write instructions for normal non tech folks to follow
9:11:39
splittist
I assume technical writing and history of computing are compulsory courses for a CS degree...
9:44:00
contrapunctus
Josh_2: if you like, I could try and help you with that. Documentation is something I'm interested in working on.
10:42:36
contrapunctus
Josh_2: "running the program, observing potential improvements to UX to avoid hitting the documentation, and improving the documentation where necessary" comes to mind. Would that help?
10:56:42
Josh_2
Ah I see. I really appreciate the offer but due to the nature of the program at the current time, and the way the user interacts with it I don't think that is possible.
11:36:29
flip214
White_Flame: My son is currently learning c# in school; but starting at that point he has no idea of all the (more or less hidden) lower complexities.
11:37:10
flip214
I think that starting from a low level and going up people can really appreciate all the layers inbetween - and end up with a rough idea where to look when something goes wrong.
11:39:06
Odin-
You may have a point about appreciation, but I think the real problem is when the lower levels are just completely ignored.
11:41:37
Odin-
Resulting in severe cases of "any sufficiently advanced technology" towards programming languages and (particularly) VMs.
11:44:36
Odin-
Well, I for one don't often bother with thinking about the operation of computers in terms of the quantum physics of semiconductors.
11:52:48
no-defun-allowed
Or whatever the counter thing is, I forgot. And it's nice that looking up "ABA problem" comes up with child torture methods.
11:57:50
no-defun-allowed
In my personal experience, going from Lisp back to Java at university made me want to transfer. So I did, and then I wanted to transfer again, but decided it was too hard to transfer once already.
12:16:44
contrapunctus
no-defun-allowed: I've been advised by at least three Lispers to write something in a non-Lisp for sake of employment...but the C family icks me out and doesn't really seem to offer anything very unique. Which leaves me with...ML family, Smalltalk, Erlang, Prolog, or Forth, so far ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
12:19:14
contrapunctus
Yeah, I'm thinking I have more fun as an amateur programmer anyway. Can pick whatever language or problem which tickles my fancy. Have better qualifications and experience in my other field, too.
18:13:57
stylewarning
Xach: I'm having difficulty repro'ing this QL report: http://report.quicklisp.org/2021-03-31/failure-report/magicl.html#magicl_ext-blas
18:14:47
phoe
stylewarning: how are you trying to reproduce it? it seems that this is not a compilation error but a FASL-loading error
18:15:19
phoe
so I guess that the way to reproduce it would be to compile everything, then try loading magicl/ext-blas in a clean image
18:17:42
phoe
hmmm, magicl/ext-blas depends on magicl/core which defines the magicl.backends package
18:20:03
phoe
my train of thoughts is, this is because it is mentioned in DEFTYPE and this type might be expanded in DEFMACRO WITH-BACKENDS... hmmmm, I'm thinking out loud
18:21:13
phoe
that's because DEFTYPE is like DEFMACRO, functions called by/vars accessed in the type expansion must be available in the compilation environment, hence EVAL-ALWAYS
18:24:06
stylewarning
phoe: I'm just going to commit that because it makes sense. I admit I haven't been testing on other platforms that are a bit more picky about *-time evaluation
18:25:32
phoe
I have no idea what is it about Xach-platform that makes it picky in this particular case
18:34:46
stylewarning
phoe: well based on your hunch I did https://github.com/rigetti/magicl/pull/133
19:21:58
gnUser
Hi guys, I am new to lisp (want to learn it for Emacs) any tutorial you can recommend? And anything cool to research that has been made using lisp?
19:23:00
phoe
asking because Emacs is written in Emacs Lisp, and #emacs is the best place to ask for that
19:23:31
minion
gnUser: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
19:28:55
phoe
they are somewhat similar on the surface but the deeper you go, the more different they are
19:30:11
phoe
tl;dr elisp is a single-implementation unstandarized language mostly used for programming emacs whereas CL is a multi-implementation ANSI-standarized general purpose programming language
19:30:55
phoe
(I don't think the guile backend for elisp is ready enough to count it as a second implementation...)
19:31:27
phoe
of course you can use elisp for general programming, though it's kind of not what it is very commonly used for and what it is most optimized for
19:32:08
phoe
although CL does not have a programming editor of emacs quality and availability of software (yet). a lot of people actually use emacs as the editor to program in CL
19:32:27
phoe
with toolkits like slime+swank, or sly+slynk, written in both elisp (client) and CL (server)