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5:51:32
beach
And it won't have to be a bootable OS to be useful. An IDE with most of the good features would be a great step in the right direction.
6:00:52
beach
purpleLizard: Most Lisp programmers seem to think that Emacs+SLIME is the best IDE every, no matter the language.
6:02:04
beach
_z_: Not sure what that means, but this channel is specifically dedicated to Common Lisp, so other dialects are off topic. It is not even widely agreed upon what would qualify as a Lisp dialect.
6:03:12
beach
_z_: Every language needs a "run time". For C, that run time is Unix. Languages that diverge a lot from C need their own. For instance, you would absolutely need a garbage collector.
6:05:49
beach
_z_: That's very doubtful. You would need to rely on unspecified features that are defined by the particular compiler you use.
6:09:16
beach
_z_: What is this Lisp VM you are talking about? There is no such thing in the Common Lisp standard.
6:09:54
beach
_z_: But both operating systems contain code for the garbage collector and other basic features needed by the language.
6:10:52
beach
_z_: No, but a language like Common Lisp would be difficult to even imagine without one.
6:12:31
beach
purpleLizard: Given that he spells it with all capital letters, I think he is just ignorant.
6:12:46
Nilby
Here's a great version of Lisp that doesn't require a "VM": http://simh.trailing-edge.com/kits/lispswre.zip. But it does have a GC in 124 lines of assembly code.
6:13:49
ex_nihilo
_z_: some CL implementations have a vm; some compile to native code: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/913671/are-there-lisp-native-code-compilers
6:15:06
beach
_z_: Common Lisp runs fine on stock hardware these days. Most modern implementations compile to native code. For a bootable OS, you just need the code that the processor requires in order to start running.
6:16:50
beach
It's amazing how people can be so simultaneously opinionated and ignorant as Fralley shows here.
6:19:32
beach
Oh. I see. Never heard of Quora before. Thanks for letting me know I can safely ignore it.
6:23:10
beach
_z_: So was that the trouble you had with understanding? You didn't know that Common Lisp compilers generate native code?
6:26:32
beach
Actually, a typical Common Lisp compiler doesn't generate traditional assembly code. They might have some internal representation of machine instructions instead.
6:27:55
beach
I am not sure what such a "VM" would consist of and that couldn't also be written in Common Lisp.
6:35:29
beach
It was designed to be embeddable in applications written in C. But jackdaniel will know more.
8:16:19
jackdaniel
_z_: this short paper may be a good reference: http://pages.di.unipi.it/attardi/Paper/LUV94.pdf -- ecl doesn't work exactly like that anymore, but this gives a good overview of some concepts
14:06:16
mfiano
Ran my lines of code report script in the wrong directory. Wanted to check on my project, but ran it in the parent CL code directory. Wow, never knew I wrote 803kloc :)
14:22:57
mfiano
Yeah, I'm afraid to know what the count is after macro expansions for macros I have wrote. This is the effect of 12 hours a day of 15 years though.
14:26:11
mfiano
My game math library is roughly 15kloc, which is included in Quicklisp, so subtract that and others from that 1/6 figure
14:26:34
Nilby
Also, for most people the code checked out in the repo is only the code that survived. There's usually a lot of dead code in the git history.
17:04:10
em
I'm no expert in coding AT ALL. I'm barely a hobbyist and I struggle a lot, but I think it's crazy to poke fun at lisp for all its parentheses when other languages end with stuff that looks like this: ;});});
17:06:30
beach
It is. But then, people need to defend their (often wrong) choices in life, or else their heads will blow up.
17:18:50
Nilby
Making fun of Lisp for parentheses seem like making fun of an elephant for it's trunk. It looks funnny, but it's an awesome feature. One could just make of it being old and having funny names, which is legit.
17:28:09
thmprover
OK, I'm arguing with myself about literate programming in Common Lisp. I'm writing some educational numerical analysis, and I'd like to explain how to derive the code from mathematics. There are two ways I can see how to write "literate lisp": (1) like vanilla literate programming (as code snippets in a PDF surrounded by commentary), (2) encoding the comments and derivations as S-expressions.
17:36:58
Nilby
I'd do the second way, but it seems like it could be distracting from writing to set up. Anyway there's things like cl-pdf, ccldoc, or CommonDoc/parenml. But to a fool like me, math makes more sense in Lisp than in math notation.