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20:15:26
_death
jmercouris: if you're referring to my paste, I didn't intend it as a solution to your issue
22:24:44
dbotton_
is there a squeak/pharo like x-platfrom graphical environment available for common lisp? in some ways portacle/emas (sans graphics) fills that niche but even so
22:25:43
phoe
everything else that is somewhat usable that I am aware of depends on foreign libraries, like qtools/commonqt which is what I use
22:32:32
aeth
dbotton_: X is designed to permit a client-server separation and there's an X client in pure CL called CLX so McCLIM using the CLX backend on Linux or similar Unix systems can offer a pure CL experience with no foreign libraries.
22:33:55
aeth
Everything else will require CFFI, although it can still be effectively "zero dependency" if it directly calls the exposed OS APIs.
22:44:36
aeth
dbotton_: the problem is that any editor/IDE has to compete with the flawed, but good-enough Emacs in order to get users, so no project has really gotten any momentum
22:51:09
dbotton_
but what though I am thinking about creating is something more like squeak or pharo
23:09:00
Gnuxie[m]
Tbh though, if someone put enough time to it, it is totally possible to beat Emacs+SLIME, it's relatively straight forward what would need to be done
23:23:31
Gnuxie[m]
I meant that it is clear what you would have to do, not that it was gonna be easy
2:22:53
aeth
Gnuxie[m]: I think the issue is one of time. Generally the way to get enough time to do it is to get paid to do a job in a related thing and there just aren't enough CL jobs yet.
5:15:09
beach
I thought the standard had a predicate to test whether an object exists anywhere in a tree of conses and atoms, but I can't find it. Did I make that up?
5:21:45
aeth
reminds me of this, which is slightly different... https://lisptips.com/post/43404489000/the-tree-walkers-of-cl
7:31:48
beach
You may look into two papers. One by Ron Garret/Erran Gat, and another by Hudak and Jones.
7:35:37
beach
The one by Hudak and Jones is entitled "Haskell vs Ada vs C++ vs Awk vs ... An Experiment in Software Prototyping Productivity."
7:41:38
shka_
it is a psychological problem and not many scientists there are interested in programming as it seems
7:42:40
jedii
picolisp looks wow database n web built in and database scales to N nodes.....hoyl crap
7:43:14
jedii
and pharo.org claims by far most produtive since abstracts away other stuff liek js html etc
7:45:54
no-defun-allowed
If I was in a worse mood, I would say something like "you wouldn't need a large N (in your database, provided it's CPU bound) if you had a compiler."
7:46:30
no-defun-allowed
You have cl-who to generate HTML, Parenscript for JavaScript, probably something like that for CSS too.
7:47:33
shka_
jedii: to paraphrase Chris Lattner from the lex podcast, the better language is the language that allows creating better libraries
7:49:29
jedii
postgresql and scylladb.com seem strong or could a lisp thing like manardb do the jobs?
7:49:47
no-defun-allowed
You could use the filesystem, a database (for example, postmodern abstracts away Postgres pretty well), or something else.
7:50:03
jedii
and while I am at it....once you use postgreqsl the art of psotgresql gy says save 1,000s of lines of code by simply doing most work inside teh db and have thing web layer
7:50:29
jedii
in which casw waht abotu naverver+tcl+psotgresql combo would that beat a list solution?