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4:53:38
beach
There are plans for other backends. And you may want to consider writing one that you need. You will save time by implementing your editor in Common Lisp, and you will help others who need that backend.
4:54:17
moon-child
the editor was always going to be in cl, the question was just what the graphics backend would be
4:55:02
beach
When you start mixing languages where some have manual memory management, you are in for a debugging nightmare.
4:55:51
moon-child
believe me, I know it. I wrote an embedding thingy for perl6 and getting it to talk to c well was awful
4:56:21
beach
OK, then you should know that I have plans for an editor for Common Lisp code. I already wrote (first) Climacs, and I have a design for Second Climacs. And loke is working on one as well. So if you need advice, just ask.
4:57:50
beach
I do, but I don't remember by heart. You can look at Second Climacs, but I advise against trying it.
4:59:59
beach
moon-child: Because of item b above, I am not suggesting a collaboration. But I can give advice.
5:01:43
moon-child
probably don't want to collab anyway. I have different goals to emacs; what I want to make is a development of editors informed by my experience with emacs, but which is probably closer to vim in the end, which seems different from what y'all are making
5:02:18
moon-child
I saw cluffer, was thinking of using it. Also looking at the backend interface for clim to see how much work a w32 port would be
5:03:07
beach
The editor I am planning would not be designed around key bindings. The essential design would about parsing buffer contents incrementally and displaying information to the user. Key bindings is just a minor thing.
5:04:04
moon-child
with more granular levels of temporality than just permanent(-ish) config files and transient macros
9:05:26
_death
Xach: hmm now that akoana mentioned it I do remember something about static lib only.. maybe I compiled it on the server to get the dynamic library
13:58:36
phoe
but debian doesn't provide a .so, only an .a library - see https://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/hspell/filelist
13:59:53
phoe
this means that either someone asks the debian maintainers to include a .so in the package or that the Lisp system will have to provide a .so on its own
14:04:02
dlowe
I really love the emacs daemon/client setup and if I were going to write an editor, it would have that design from the beginning
15:17:38
kmeow
How do I use libraries (without quicklisp) in Common Lisp? I've downloaded one but don't know what to do, exactly, in the script I'm trying to use it with
15:19:08
Xach
kmeow: you need to load asdf, put the libraries somewhere asdf knows about (or you teach asdf about), then use (asdf:load-system "the library name"), and then you can work with the library's functions and data and such.
15:20:26
Xach
I think asdf automagically knows about libraries in the ~/common-lisp/ directory but I'm not 100% sure
15:24:44
pfdietz
I just put these things in quicklisp/local-projects/ and let ql load them. You may need to call (ql:register-local-projects) again.
15:26:54
kmeow
I'm mostly trying to figure out how to have all the scripts in one directory all together, so it might be redistributed
15:29:48
Xach
kmeow: but with that use-case in mind, quicklisp can bundle up a bunch of libraries (even non-quicklisp libraries) and make them loadable by loading a little loader script that omits quicklisp
15:32:06
d4ryus
Xach: I guess the statement "Bundling works only for systems available through Quicklisp." is obsolete then?
15:32:50
Xach
d4ryus: i agree it's a little confusing, but the meaning there is that it can only automatically bundle quicklisp-provided systems, and other systems have to be copied into the bundle's local-projects directory.
15:36:10
mercourisj
Does Quicklisp do any handling of external dependencies? Eg. installing shared libraries? Has it been discussed?
15:37:39
Xach
mercourisj: it does not. i feel the problem is very big with the diversity of platforms that support Common Lisp.
15:38:30
mercourisj
I'm thinking about just adding some sort of abstraction layer to install using the user's package manager
15:38:37
phoe
some of those compile C code, some of those pull precompiled binaries from the network
15:40:06
mercourisj
it has been done before, it is not a fantastic solution, but it works *OK* without much work
15:40:32
Xach
There is a CL project that is an interface to package managers. I don't know how universal it is.
15:41:38
Xach
I don't like it a ton because it presumes a user is allowed to install stuff from the package manager, when that's not always the case.
15:42:06
Xach
I don't like things named "quick*" that are not part of the quicklisp project, but what can ya do.
15:43:23
phoe
mercourisj: we already have everything great that NPM contains, namely (ql:quickload :trivial-left-pad)
15:43:34
Xach
I can't remember the other candidate names. I did know I didn't want something that was hard to pronounce or disgusting.
15:45:57
phoe
next is obviously the new filesystem format based on ext, the acronym comes from Next EXT
15:46:06
Xach
mercourisj: there was a lisp project that predated quicklisp that fetched the entire universe of libraries from git to local directories. so you could have an entire hackable universe at your fingertips, and push and pull and such.
15:46:36
Xach
this was in an interesting time when core libraries would be hosted on peoples' personal git repo and that would be unavailable sometimes
15:47:07
Xach
phoe: sort of, and without the proxy step of hosting everything on a pretty reliable CDN/file store
15:48:03
Xach
quicklisp is a reaction to a world that is so distant now i can't remember the names of the pieces :~(
15:48:45
Xach
lukego: well, you would know, what was the lisp thing that had metadata for checking out everything from git?
15:59:28
Cymew
It was a short while when darcs was the big thing for lisp, and nothing much else. I remember that now. How nice that has passed.
16:11:00
dlowe
well, there was asdf-install, too, which went to a wiki and downloaded whatever it found there