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16:24:19
pjb
jmercouris: already, people implementing new compilers by bootstrapping nowadays cheat, since they use top-notch macOS systems to edit and debug their code. They should bootstrap it using a KIN-1 !!! http://oldcomputers.net/kim1.html
16:25:51
beach
jmercouris: My guess with respect to Common Lisp is that there is this idea that Common Lisp has to be created using some lower-level language, but that is not the case, of course.
16:26:16
beach
jmercouris: Now, building a Common Lisp system is considerably harder than (say) writing a C compiler in C.
16:27:07
beach
jmercouris: The reason is that a C compiler is a simple file translator, whereas a Common Lisp system contains a complex graph of objects right from the start.
16:27:37
Xach
jmercouris: i found it helpful to understand that code to run on a machine is just a sequence of bits, and it's not hard to make a program in any language create a sequence of bits, either in memory on on disk. sometimes it's tricky to know what bits to put in what order, but they are all bits at the bottom.
16:28:07
beach
jmercouris: And, the best way of creating that graph is to execute code. And it is best if that code is Common Lisp code.
16:28:46
Xach
so if the bits on x86 to test for zero and jump are 42, and on arm it's 31, it's not a big deal to make a compiler on x86 generate arm, as long as you configure it to produce the right bits.
16:29:21
Xach
the higher-level management of program meaning is one thing and generating the right bits is another.
16:29:24
jmercouris
Right, I was just thinking about stuff like RISC or something which is quite different than x86
16:30:10
jmercouris
I bet it would be insanely difficult to formally prove that they are computionally equivalent
16:30:42
jmercouris
I did study some formal verification in graduate school, I ended up leaving the class feeling like it was a toy that could never really be used
16:31:40
jmercouris
thanks for the explanations and links, more to think about, I'm off to cook some dinner now
16:38:41
puchacz
so I started ccl locally, I can see its make-hash-table non-standard keyword arguments, but where is it documented?
18:29:55
_death
have you tried reducing the amount of code that runs? if it's only a trivial handler, does it still happen?
20:20:42
mfiano
Suppose I make a project on my github called "alexandria" and click the big blue button on ultralisp.org to add it. Everyone that updates their dist and loads a system that depends on it (nearly anything transitively), and they likely won't know that it secretly deletes / recursively until it's too late. I can't believe there is no review process and it updates every 5 minutes. Maybe I'm missing
20:41:22
borodust
Xach: hi! anything new with PGP for quicklisp dists? i apologize in advance, if i missed some critical news regarding that feature
22:34:21
luis
Alexandria has a parse-ordinary-lambda-list. Is there a parse-macro-lambda-list somewhere?
22:47:23
Bike
implementations probably has it, but it's not as easy to define, since the recursive structure means the multiple value return isn't enough
4:09:44
anlsh
Well we'll see, I'm trying to set up erc on emacs and registration isn't being very co-operative