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7:30:35
scymtym
when i install screamer via quicklisp, i get screamer-20190710-git. however, looking at https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/blob/master/projects/screamer/source.txt and https://github.com/nikodemus/screamer , it seems the most recent change was in 2015. does anybody know why that is?
8:06:30
leedleLoo
I recently read richard gabriel's paper here where he distinguishes between languages and systems: https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/Incommensurability.pdf. Is there other reading making this distinction? When folks have asked why I prefer CL, especially over other lisps, I've always pointed out that the environment exposed through lisp/slime is unparalleled and I feel that the paper kinda touches on this
8:18:21
Lycurgus
u need to set the heap size it won't grow beyond the configed limit, though the hang being a loop is suspect
9:09:12
leedleLoo
beach: I'm not sure which section in the wiki is relevant to the lang vs system distinction
9:12:56
beach
leedleLoo: A language is "just" a (usually infinite) set of phrases. By "system", I assume that Gabriel meant some kind of software.
9:14:04
schweers
As I have no idea what portacle does, I’m afraid I can’t tell you where portacle gets its configuration. Does it start an emacs instance?
9:24:24
leedleLoo
beach: Gabriel defined his use of Language and System on page 11 of the paper. I'm still not sure what part of wikipedia is relevant, though
9:41:44
_death
leedleLoo: maybe you'll be interested in http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Hindsight.html
9:49:08
leedleLoo
_death: I skimmed over the headings and will read later on, but this is great, thanks :)
9:52:04
_death
it doesn't go too deep, just the first thing that occurred to me in relation to the RPG paper
10:02:20
schweers
seok: That’s weird. I use the same variable to set my heap size and it works just fine. I don’t use portacle though.
10:05:28
leedleLoo
The page seems to focus on the repl-experience instead of just talking about the language itself, and that's what I was interested in. I've always felt that folks comparing CL to other languages/lisps have tended to focus on the language and the not development experience as a whole
10:23:59
_death
leedleLoo: correct.. there are other communities also taking the system view seriously, such as the Smalltalk community..
10:27:51
leedleLoo
_death: I haven't really dabbled in Smalltalk myself, but from what I've read, that's absolutely true. I haven't seen other communities with this viewpoint though, and it's really the main reason why I write CL
10:33:59
_death
leedleLoo: I found it interesting that the target paper critiqued by RPG was written by a Smalltalk guy
10:56:15
Shinmera
seok: .emacs does not apply to Portacle. Use user.el in the config/ directory instead.
11:09:26
thijso
_death: that hindsight link seems to touch on quite a few things in common with PAIP, which I'm reading through for the first time now
11:11:10
thijso
can't say I'm able to follow all of it on first read, though... info density is quite high
11:15:58
thijso
I'm afraid it'll be a bit like physics in high school... you follow the explanation during class, and think, oh right, I understand that... then, when you need to figure out the stuff yourself during a test, you're totally lost and unable to make the leap from problem to solution...
11:16:52
thijso
Yeah... I'm skipping those on the first read through... have to save something for later, right?
11:19:29
_death
it's not a critical one anyway.. before or after matters less as long as at some point you get some practice
13:12:39
beach
Since many people here hang out neither in #sicl nor in #clim, let me just encourage anyone who regularly uses an inspector during development to try the new version of Clouseau. I am currently using its extension API in order to inspect SICL bootstrapping objects, something that was not possible with the old Clouseau. The new version is a total rewrite (by scymtym) and I thing he did a fantastic job.
13:30:24
yoeljacobsen
beach - I couldn't find much info on Clouseau - may you please provide more information on how to try it?
13:37:52
edgar-rft
yoeljacobsen: don't thank me too early, the link leads to a ten year old version :-(
13:38:48
scymtym
i updated the wiki page to link to the current source (i.e. https://github.com/McCLIM/McCLIM/tree/master/Apps/Clouseau ). the documentation is here: https://common-lisp.net/project/mcclim/static/manual/mcclim.html#Inspector
14:13:47
asdf_asdf_asdf
Hello folks, hello there, hello all, hello wholes, hello You. Hi, hey, hello!
16:51:15
vms14
there is no directive in format to print the current number of iterations inside a list?
16:53:53
White_Flame
isn't there a format escape that will evaluate a form? can you shove an INCF in there?
16:59:08
pfdietz
In which I discover both Optima and Trivia can take exponential time to compile a pattern.
17:03:07
pjb
vms14: (format nil "~2,1@/fmt-index/~:*~{~,/fmt-index/~:* ~(~A~)~^~%~}." '("rule 1" "rule 2")) #| --> "1 rule 1 ; 2 rule 2." |#
17:05:23
White_Flame
an easier-to-write but less memory efficient version would be to map* up a list of data with calculated counters in it, then pass that to FORMAT
17:05:43
dlowe
(loop for e in list as i from 0 do (format t "~a. ~a~%" i e)) seems more than reasonable
17:06:46
pjb
Remember that the control string is an argument to format. It can come from a configuration file or a localization file.
17:08:17
vms14
but it's an interesting case and a good example to learn how to create functions for format
17:40:48
White_Flame
one of the more interesting output construction facilities I've seen is in Erlang
17:41:12
vms14
and I thought it could be a good exercise for a noob like me to create a lisp version of this script
17:41:21
White_Flame
you build up nested lists of strings (or byte values), and then the final output call loops through, flattening all the output into the stream
18:52:39
aeth
the only problem with format is that there isn't a (standard) deformat for parsing so you could (stream "~F" variable) and get a variable out