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8:15:27
jeosol
I want to give you a shout-out. Just watched Schafmeister video using Cleavir for his work and reference you
8:17:21
beach
We work fairly closely together, so I hang out in the #clasp channel and he is present in #sicl.
9:22:08
no-defun-allowed
Around 15:00 Schafmeister name-drops beach and an "Alex Wood" for their Cleavir compiler framework.
10:42:36
pjb
minion: memo for defunkydrummer: on MS-Windows, you can use Clozure CL; with it's FFI (using CFFI), you can access all the MS-Windows API, including to implement native GUI.
12:52:25
jeosol
no-defun-allowed: Yes, it was that video. Very nice. He said a "Robert ..." a professor at University of Bordeaux.
12:54:11
jeosol
I liked the talk, especially for the application and that CL help with difficulties. He also had some benchmark with other languages (perl and python)
13:00:01
jeosol
The part about "why CL" and "Energy Efficiency across Programming Languages" was good
13:01:32
jeosol
For anyone interested, here is the "energy efficiency ..." paper. http://greenlab.di.uminho.pt/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/paperSLE.pdf
13:18:24
jeosol
hahaha, I agree with his energy. I'll need that when I fight trolls who ask me why I use CL
13:19:50
jeosol
shka_: ok you read the article. I only linked it for those who may be interested in it. I read articles/papers and just get some info. As a reviewer, I have come across many boring papers, so I know what you mean.
16:29:18
beach
neeasade: People probably don't know what cider is, so you are better off explaining what you want.
16:32:10
minion
saravia: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
16:36:51
neeasade
beach: thanks, I will clarify -- there is an emacs package, eros, that displays eval result overlays in the buffer. it looks like this: https://0x0.st/zb4q.png . I was hoping for something similar for slime/CL
17:19:17
defunkydrummer
minion: memo to pjb: minion isn't working, thanks for the memo (read it on lisp logs instead)
17:19:18
minion
defunkydrummer, memo from pjb: on MS-Windows, you can use Clozure CL; with it's FFI (using CFFI), you can access all the MS-Windows API, including to implement native GUI.
17:20:28
defunkydrummer
saravia, PuercoPop and myself are in the same city. This brings me most-positive-fixnum happiness.
17:47:32
neeasade
for anyone interested, I was able to hack it into eros's existing wrapper. https://pastebin.com/raw/RNEyVgxp
17:49:44
_death
neeasade: no, mine :) https://github.com/death/slime/commit/86e71491e3d96b7530e22ed5d8073fb6445d8f9a
17:50:46
neeasade
phoe: thanks, I'll look into it, I may just end up posting the final thing on #emacs or #lisp
18:22:40
puchacz
hi, is Clasp easy to use (say like SBCL) or it is more for adventurous people who know C++ etc.? somebody said here that ECL is for adventurous people, and I saw youtube video about Clasp where drmeister said the Clasp code was largerly taken from ECL....
18:24:04
minion
pjb, memo from defunkydrummer: minion isn't working, thanks for the memo (read it on lisp logs instead)
18:25:02
pjb
puchacz: the only thing that will look different to a normal lisper, is that ecl doesn't save lisp images. So when you launch a program build from ecl, you don't restore a lisp image, but it's like if you loaded all the object files.
18:25:37
shka_
and compiler is not that fast, but that's because it delegates actual compilation to GCC
18:25:57
pjb
puchacz: on the other hand, when you need to interface with C or C++, you see the advantages of ecl. Or when you use it in a foreign program as the libecl library.
18:26:53
puchacz
ABCL does not use images either, it would be a problem if I was deploying applications (even to a server) but when I use it at work to script around our huge Java application locally to investigate or test something, it is no problem at all.
19:21:51
TheWild
okay, it's not about parentheses. It's about the Lisp's prefix notation. How do you read it?
19:24:21
pjb
TheWild: you watch the first symbol in the list. If it's the name of a special operator, you interpret the rest according to the special rules of this special operator.
19:25:25
pjb
TheWild: otherwise, it must be a function name, or a lambda-expression designating an anonymous function. Then you must evaluate the remaining elements in the list in order, keep the main results, and pass them as argument to the function named by the first element.
19:25:59
TheWild
sure thing for very small programs. When the program gets a little bigger, all I see is a soup or numbers, keywords and operators.
19:28:20
pjb
TheWild: you can always ask here or in #clschool if you have a problem with a specific example.
19:28:51
pjb
TheWild: I would advise an exercise: write a lisp function to take a lisp expression, and print out an explaination of it.
19:48:20
phoe
and if you want to see what reader macros are capable of, see https://github.com/y2q-actionman/with-c-syntax
19:49:36
phoe
also what shka_ said - if you want to see what they can do, take a look at them; but never start learning Lisp by learning how to write macros
19:49:52
TheWild
ah, \( and \). I thought I could just overwrite the bare fundamentals and... well, I couldn't imagine it.
19:49:57
phoe
you actually have to have a good understanding of list processing in Lisp to be able to write somewhat complicated ones.
19:51:03
shka_
your macros don't make lisp powerful, your macros can be powerful thanks to everything else in the lisp
19:52:08
shka_
TheWild: don't waste your time, learn how to write your usual code good enough, once you have that learning everything else will become just that much easier
19:54:02
TheWild
I'm curious how ( and ) inside #{ }# has not been inrepreted as subexpression... or maybe it was?
19:54:48
phoe
TheWild: reader macros are functions that take arbitrary input from the input stream and pop out Lisp expressions
19:54:59
phoe
how they do that - it's up to them, they can execute arbitrary Lisp code as a part of their processing
19:55:15
TheWild
about month ago I was learning lambda calculus and SK combinator calculus. I've no idea how I ended up there though.
19:55:59
shka_
TheWild: once again, you don't know how lisp lexical scope works, how special variables work, how packages work and what is the symbol datatype
19:56:53
TheWild
so even if I'm not going to write any good Lisp code, I'd like to see what others have invented.
19:57:08
phoe
TheWild: basically, learn yourself some Lisp, and a) you will be able to write crazy shit like this, b) you will learn yourself a stable, interactive and bendy programming language along the way
19:57:59
defunkydrummer
TheWild: or even macros. Start with the real basics like let, defun, cond, format, then maybe loop, then some list operations like mapcar, append, reverse, push
19:59:27
defunkydrummer
i guarantee you'll find pleasant surprises even by doing regular lisp code without clos or reader macros.