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1:01:16
saravia
sorry but, how i install anaphora, i dont have slime, only i have sbcl, and what is the complete simple way for install this?
1:12:23
PuercoPop
aeth: i used to use gensyms as system designators. Now I use strings directly or symbols if I want to load multiple systems
1:17:18
saravia
if i use `curl -0 https://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp` and run `(quicklisp-quickstart:install)` and run `(ql:add-to-init-file)' i have all?
1:23:28
PuercoPop
saravia: then Quicklisp appears to be loaded correctly. what does (ql:quickload "anaphora") return?
1:30:36
saravia
mmm when run the program anaphora uses, return this = Error loagind /home/saravia/.config/stumpwm/config: end of file on #<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for "file /home/saravia/.slime/fasl/2.23/sbcl-1.3.15-linux-x86-64
1:33:22
PuercoPop
saravia: can you past your config file? From the error I'm guessing there is an unclosed parenthesis
1:55:47
PuercoPop
saravia: don't see anything wrong in that file, it may be in one of the conf files it loads. Btw alexandria comes with when-let which is the 'readable' version of AWHEN.
1:58:42
saravia
but the same code config, run at one laptop and pc, but at my personal laptop not works
2:11:01
defunkydrummer
saravia lol, you speak spanish. Both PuercoPop and me have spanish as native language
2:12:31
saravia
Error: en of file on #<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for "file /home/saravia/.slime/fasl/sbcl-1.3.15-linux-x86-64/swank.fasl" {1002DD3FD3}>
2:15:28
defunkydrummer
saravia when you compile a .lisp file, the output is a "fast load" (.fasl) file
2:18:26
defunkydrummer
@zt30 we have a lot of threads on this on Reddit, let me fetch you the latest ones...
2:19:33
defunkydrummer
please answer all three questions so we can give you our best customer support
2:21:04
z3t0
ideally it would be something free, or at least with an evaluation version so I can determine whether it is a good fit. Multi-OS is a requirement. We are doing a GUI app but do have a quite a bit of graphics rendering. Our current app (web/js) manages to handle this using some wrappers around webgl, so ideally a layer of abstraction on top of opengl would be desired
2:21:41
z3t0
I am currently looking into commonqt, it seems like the only mature library (at least from my brief googling)
2:21:45
defunkydrummer
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2:22:55
defunkydrummer
@z3t0 one option can be IUP. IUP is a binding to the IUP library by TecGraf (brazil). This is a cross-platform gui library and has OpenGL bindings as well. The lib is well documented and the IUP common lisp library looks elegant. It's in the making right now, so just hot from the oven
2:23:59
defunkydrummer
we have many other options, a very common one is Qt bindings, for which there are plenty of lisp libs like CommonQt. Or the EQL implementation, which is ECL + QT
2:25:30
defunkydrummer
more discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/8zvirn/cl_bad_for_native_guis_and_other_thoughts_on/
2:26:07
defunkydrummer
this topic has been discussed a lot really. z3t0 besides GUI libraries, there are also libs dedicated to OpenGL as well
2:26:28
defunkydrummer
i think IUP is peculiar because it's a GUI lib that also includes OpenGL bindings
2:26:50
defunkydrummer
haven't tried it yet but the sample code looks elegant and it's a fresh (right now. april 2019) lib so it isn't stale
2:27:22
defunkydrummer
the actual C library comes from a university in brazil and has been used for several production software, for engineering stuff AFAIK
2:30:05
defunkydrummer
then there are GTK bindings (see discussion), wxWindows bindings if i recall correctly. Then, for the non-cross-OS you have McClim (only works through an X Server), and several Windows (Win32 API) bindings.
2:30:23
defunkydrummer
then if you wanna pay you have CommonGraphics on Allegro CL, and CAPI on LispWorks.
2:31:09
defunkydrummer
ah, forgot to mention: another option is LTK which is a binding to Tcl/Tk. Code is elegant, it is thoroughly documented, and "just works", however you need to have Tcl/Tk installed in your machine (or bundle it with your application)
2:32:44
defunkydrummer
there's a FLTK binding too; FLTK is minimal. I don't know if it works, on the other hand.
2:39:27
z3t0
I am looking through the different options and am starting to realize its a complicated scenario to evaluate
2:39:57
z3t0
from what I can see a lot of the libraries don't have a lot of documentation and/or aren't more than a wrapper around a C api
2:40:29
z3t0
the nice thing in commonqt/qtools (from what I grokked on the README) is that it does offer lispy abstractions, which I think is quite valuable
2:42:20
defunkydrummer
@z3t0 thank you for choosing Lisp, satisfied customers since 1958. Eternal salvation, or triple your money back!
2:42:59
defunkydrummer
@z3t0 IUP also has good abstractions. LTK too. IUP is well documented IMO since it closely follows the original lib, which is well documented.
2:45:34
defunkydrummer
as for Qt, i see lately that some of the frequently used libs use QML, so you mostly will be OK if you learn how to use QML from the Qt website
2:56:41
defunkydrummer
yo @zt30, also look at https://github.com/lispnik/tecgraf-libs which downloads the IUP libraries for you. I'm trying it right now.
2:58:40
defunkydrummer
yes, It works correctly. Note that if you're in windows (lol, Steve Ballmer) there's a small typo on the .asd (see Issues)
3:48:35
z3t0
at least on my client it only works when you type z3t0 rather than @z3t0 , not sure if that's just my client or a common thing
3:49:52
beach
z3t0: I highly recommend McCLIM. It is not perfect, but it has some great advantages compared to some others. For one thing, it is pure Common Lisp, so you don't have the impedance mismatch between a Common Lisp and a language without automatic memory management.
3:50:21
beach
z3t0: And CLIM has a very detailed specification, though we do not have a good user manual for McCLIM yet.
3:50:57
z3t0
I'll have to discuss with my team ahha, if it was up to me we would probably be going with something like that, but its a hard enough sell to use lisp in the first place
3:51:07
beach
z3t0: By using McCLIM, and hopefully improving it as well, you help with the common free Common Lisp toolbox that we are aiming to create.
3:51:48
z3t0
currently we are doing js/react, which has the advantage of getting something shipped very quickly but as soon as you try to do something not described in some blog post, or the react team introduces a breaking change, or theres some weird bug you need to debug... well then you're out of luck
3:52:37
z3t0
I am hesitant to look into most of the cl libraries because they either seem inactive, or in alpha/beta stage
3:53:57
z3t0
anyways im out for the night, if you have any more thoughts feel free to tag me. I'll read my messages the next time im on
3:54:48
beach
The people currently working on McCLIM are very helpful, but with answering questions and providing fixes for problems you may have.
3:59:50
defunkydrummer
beach : z3t0 is looking for something that will work on any OS, that's why I didn't steer him to McClim ("the stuff really boring dreams are made of")
4:00:51
beach
I really wish for the day when people would stop using Windows and other proprietary operating systems.
4:00:59
defunkydrummer
that would be a major milestone. On the other hand, GUI development is old stuff nowadays. All frontend now is either javascript or a custom Android/Iphone app
4:01:32
defunkydrummer
beach i really wish for the day Lisp is again used by the industry, not just in an academic setting. And the industry has a large usage of Windows
4:02:27
defunkydrummer
beach besides, Unix is a regression in the state of the art. And you know it perfectly: You wrote "lispos.pdf" where you rightly show how a lisp operating system should be, and it leaves the unix/posix world lacking in comparison
4:02:49
defunkydrummer
@beach: if there's any OS people should switch, it should be one free from the posix legacy. Maybe Mezzano or whatever
4:03:25
defunkydrummer
beach i'm all for suggestions as long as don't get me back to 1968 and "everything's a text file"
4:03:54
defunkydrummer
beach in any case, our discussion is pointless, since everything is moving to containers and "serverless"
4:05:08
defunkydrummer
i work in a company. This is a major company, part of a very, very big company. 1200 users on my office. All on windows. I want to create tools useful for them, so i need GUI in the first place. I can't change stuff to linux, it's not an option.
8:15:27
jeosol
I want to give you a shout-out. Just watched Schafmeister video using Cleavir for his work and reference you
8:17:21
beach
We work fairly closely together, so I hang out in the #clasp channel and he is present in #sicl.
9:22:08
no-defun-allowed
Around 15:00 Schafmeister name-drops beach and an "Alex Wood" for their Cleavir compiler framework.