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17:09:44
kenu
Trying to change session-cookie-name in hunchentoot, but what does it exactly mean to specilize generic function and how one do that?
17:17:52
_death
if you have your own acceptor (sub)class, then it's a matter of (defmethod hunchentoot:session-cookie-name ((acceptor my-acceptor)) <code here>)
18:04:09
makomo
can anyone tell me how much was ELS registration the previous few years (preferably for students)?
18:04:31
makomo
i think i heard someone say that it was rather low/symbolic, especially for students
18:05:48
makomo
are such prices the norm? was it previously lower but now that it's colocated with <Programming> it's higher?
18:09:01
MichaelRaskin
In the middle of the page of year 2019 I see «Because the student fee is higher than our normal rate, we will also implement a student refund program when the conference is over, as we did two years ago.»
18:13:51
MichaelRaskin
makomo: It is possible that there is something not completely clear about the exact interaction with the maing organising committee.
18:14:56
jackdaniel
before programming the cost was (if I recall correctly) 40 euro for students and 80 euro for everyone else (early birds)
18:17:00
MichaelRaskin
Anyway, in 2017 I see an announcement of a not-too-complicated procedure with a 50€ refund for students registered for workshop days of Programming and precommitting to attend both days of ELS and signing some paperwork in the ELS room on both days.
18:18:12
MichaelRaskin
Yes, in 2017 (which was probably the first year of once-in-two-years Programming)
19:04:46
Xach
It makes me sad because this is essentially the only Common Lisp conference in the world right now.
19:21:44
margaritamike
Is it harder to do refactoring in Common Lisp than other languages like Java/Haskell?
19:40:30
fiddlerwoaroof
margaritamike: I find that paredit and keyboard macros are a pretty good substitute for the refactoring tools something like IntelliJ provides
19:41:30
fiddlerwoaroof
If you're doing something like renaming a function, there's slime-who-calls ( C-c C-w C-c ) for that
19:57:24
Xach
margaritamike: i think there are fewer tools for automatic widespread refactoring then in other environments.
20:04:55
fiddlerwoaroof
I believe there was something called redshank that provided some minimal refactorings
20:26:14
Xach
I think there are pieces available to build nice refactoring tools but I'm not aware of any completed and available projects along those lines
20:27:00
shka_
well, there is eclector and scymtym (i think?) was doing some really impressive things with it
20:30:41
shka_
anyway, eclector is currently the best base to build such refactoring tools i suspect
20:31:06
scymtym
eclector is all i can offer in that regard for now, sorry (i hope to change that this year)
20:34:50
LdBeth
however I'm not sure if people are ok with using binary file format to store their project
20:37:46
LdBeth
scymtym: I've looked into it, but the approch I choose is using a Concordia/Scribe like markup rather than serialized CLOS object. The format accepts malformed input which could be more pratical in converting exsisted projects.
23:01:46
montxero
Hi, in slime-repl, when the screen is cleared with C-l and a form is evaluated, part of the previously cleard screen comes back moveing the new results lower. How can one avoid this such after clearing the screen, old stuff doesn't come back unless one does C-l or M-v or something similar?
23:36:12
mgsk
I'm trying to write a macro that uses some lexical variable's symbol-value as the value for return-from. Having trouble thinking about compile time vs. run time, and how to do it properly https://gist.github.com/notmgsk/e1ca6f104bce29444c53255f3966db50
23:37:26
pjb
mgsk: learn about lexical variables and special variables (lexical binding vs. dynamic binding).
23:42:00
pjb
Also, you didn't mention that you wanted to work with the name of the function. There might be more than one error per line…
23:44:00
Xach
mgsk: block/return-from and throw/catch might help achieve some kind of flow control there. but it's a little hard to tell from the example.
23:44:44
Xach
It's not too hard to implicitly establish some context that is then implicitly used later but it depends on the context.
23:47:17
pjb
mgsk: https://gist.github.com/notmgsk/e1ca6f104bce29444c53255f3966db50#gistcomment-2833331
0:09:14
fiddlerwoaroof
One thing I've noticed that's a bit surprising about slime-repl-clear-buffer is that it sets *, ** and *** to nil
0:10:29
fiddlerwoaroof
It's a hook "slime-repl-clear-variables" that actually does this, so I guess you could remove that hook to avoid issues
0:12:08
fiddlerwoaroof
This snippet from swank is basically art: https://fwoar.co/pastebin/f16f291e9ce4292ea9fc54caa884d8128caba2c3.lisp.html
4:36:09
montxero
Perhaps not the best place for this but I reckon this group has the requisite knowledge. Why do people (training consultancies) charge $1500+ for a 2 to 8 day introduction to `x-lang`?
4:37:23
montxero
especially given that they do not (cannot) cover any substantial amount of material in that time
4:38:30
p_l
montxero: because that's a cost just to hire the trainer plus logistics plus *some* profit
4:38:55
p_l
Depending on language and class of people involved you can, however, make a significant dent
4:40:38
p_l
By carefully managing both expectations AND grade of people taking part in training it's perfectly possible to make a week long course that kick starts a team on new language
4:42:22
verisimilitude
With the Internet existing, along with a wealth of books, there's no reason to purchase such, montxero.
4:43:21
montxero
p_l: okay, if that be the case why bother with competent devs in the first place as a new crop can be harvested that easily
4:44:08
p_l
montxero: what you're missigg is that it doesn't mean you don't need competent devs in the first place
4:44:12
montxero
a bit of background, I muck around with python, matlab, and I'm learning common lisp
4:44:40
verisimilitude
You collect a band of idiots looking for easy money, set them up in stupid little classes for JavaScript or any programming language that doesn't matter, and you send them to California for the gold rush, where they get ripped to shreds.
4:45:00
montxero
however, I am more than conversant with all the intermedeate materials in the python courses I've seen
4:46:07
p_l
The requirements are competent, but not masterful (those can do it with a page of docs and an evening) sysadmins that know linux and can handle Bash scripting
4:46:55
p_l
The course then takes them through a bit of theory about "cloud" and "infrastructure as code"
4:47:16
verisimilitude
I don't think it's a controversial idea that only people with a real interest in programming should be writing programs. We don't expect someone without an interest in mathematics to write an elegant proof and advance the field; let's just disregard financial math, which is mostly concerned with transferring money from you to me indirectly.
4:47:48
p_l
Later on using a simple "wargame" they are walked through all the steps necessary to bring up a common application example in the cloud, using purely IaC approach
4:49:06
p_l
montxero: this is all actionable stuff where they are doing coding on both days and which concentrates on getting things done and pointing where to go from there
4:50:13
p_l
montxero: this means that anyone who participates seriously should be able to go back to work and start an onprem->cloud migration, including understanding why and why NOT, while keeping to best practices
4:51:51
verisimilitude
I'm inclined to believe one shoulddn't use a programming language until one actually knows it.
4:52:10
verisimilitude
If you don't read the standard, you probably don't actually know the language.
4:52:41
verisimilitude
http://morningcoffee.io/boolean-short-circuiting-is-not-guaranteed-in-sql.html
4:52:42
p_l
verisimilitude: that would exclude pretty close to all C/C++/Python and bunch of other languages
4:53:19
verisimilitude
Look at the above article; instead of actually knowing the language, this fool writes a test to check his ``hypothesis''.
4:53:21
montxero
p_l: Thanks for clearing that up. Say I have some specialied knowledge which I incidentally implement in a programming language, can I in all honesty offer a course such as: Developing `super niche hyper cool Y` in `x-lang`?