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18:39:49
verisimilitude
I could certainly leave them, but it would greatly simplify and otherwise improve the code to do away with them.
18:42:44
_death
for my purposes I define something similar to a framebuffer, that only outputs the changes when REDISPLAY is called..
18:46:02
verisimilitude
I wanted ATC to complement Common Lisp, so I always preferred using something already present. Your library is mostly adding predefined interface components, right?
18:48:30
_death
currently what goes into it is not so well-defined.. but there are modules like that framebuffer abstraction, that can be used on their own
18:51:02
_death
for example, here's a small "demo" to test redisplay performance https://gist.github.com/death/c08917417b7acef288dcd28e9eb2c440
18:51:25
verisimilitude
There's a similar lack of constraint in ATC; I decided I'd mostly be putting in building blocks more than anything, so it's nice to know you're building such higher things in a different library.
18:58:54
_death
you can't do anything much with CL:TIME.. it just prints implementation-dependent text
19:00:19
_death
this program tells me how many redisplays happen per second (each benchmark takes 10s)
19:01:07
verisimilitude
I see you went with a WITH macro design, then; that's something I specifically wanted to avoid, not that I dislike them.
19:06:50
_death
it actually sets up the terminal for drawing of characters etc., and tears it down on exit
19:09:10
_death
still, with the addition of the input layer, which also uses acute-terminal-control, the two are the low level abstractions in the library..
19:10:02
_death
oh, the input layer doesn't directly use a-t-c either nowadays.. so it's the only module
19:10:54
_death
there is a drawing primitives module, and the rest is currently a salad of abstractions waiting for re-factoring
19:37:15
fouric
does anyone know of the top of their head how SBCL does (dis)assembly? specifically, does it use its own database of textual assembly <-> opcode mappings, or someone else's?
19:37:34
_death
verisimilitude: and I encourage you to continue with development of a-t-c :).. I think it's important to have a non-FFI alternative
19:38:50
_death
fouric: it has its own.. although there is now an SB-CAPSTONE contrib for some reason..
19:42:36
verisimilitude
Perhaps I'll take a look at Ncurses' API to see if there's any interesting functionality I could implement, since I'm not spilling over with ideas about it.
19:45:59
_death
verisimilitude: back then I inquired about urxvt.. I had to work around things a bit in the input module (and didn't bother with mouse events yet, as they seemed problematic)
19:50:45
verisimilitude
You've read the comments in ATC, though, I suppose, so you know my thoughts already.
19:52:06
verisimilitude
Since I'm using standard Common Lisp as much as possible, I'm unable to have special code for special terminals, so I can only target the LCD without extra facilities.
19:52:34
verisimilitude
Still, Xterm and its spawn did manage to agree on the sequences sent for the first twelve or so function keys and whatnot, I believe.
20:02:48
_death
I no longer remember.. is this info available in terminfo? if so, the database could be used
20:03:23
verisimilitude
You misunderstand; the issue is that you can't determine which terminal is being used in standard Common Lisp, as you can't access the environment in standard Common Lisp, _death.
20:04:47
verisimilitude
I still have a good amount of functionality I can add before I hit any such walls and must make a decision, I figure.
20:13:59
_death
maybe I should play with such a design in my library.. instead of my current urxvt-specific hacks
20:15:10
verisimilitude
Perhaps; another reason I wouldn't use terminfo or termcap, my sense of aesthetics aside, is because that's POSIX nonsense you can't expect everywhere.
20:18:04
verisimilitude
I've tried submitting patches for some awful issues to terminal maintainers or otherwise raising them, but with little success so far.
1:14:23
fiddlerwoaroof
Maybe? Also, I don't think Julia really has the "system" mindset that CL and Smalltalk have
1:47:01
permagreen
I will say that I quite like Julia, but it's a pretty different animal from lisp in most respects. There are pros and cons to both (as there are between any two languages) and some of that stuff is largely subjective
1:48:49
permagreen
Yep, that is probably one of the biggest pains in the ass I've come across when messing around with it
5:06:49
fiddlerwoaroof
holycow: Welcome to #Debian. This is a discussion channel; if you have a question about Debian GNU/Linux, ask and we will try our best to answer it. Newcomers should read the channel's guidelines by typing "/msg dpkg guidelines". Please do not paste in the channel; use #flood instead. Thank you.
5:16:21
madrik
To keep it somewhat on topic, Debian is a good system if you want to use Common Lisp.
5:16:52
madrik
There are a number of implementations available as packages; both SLIME and the HyperSpec are also packaged.
5:18:06
holycow
the author moved on but he did some really cool art with common lisp: https://inconvergent.net/2017/snek-is-not-an-acronym/
5:21:37
madrik
On amd64, I know that we can get SBCL, GCL, and ECL; by adding support for 32-bit libraries, we also can get CMUCL
5:34:10
diip
madrik: how do I use the hyperspec though? Does the implementation know to look for it on the PC?
5:42:21
fiddlerwoaroof
you can also set browse-url-function to 'eww-browse-url to open the file inside emacs
5:42:27
fiddlerwoaroof
Something like: https://fwoar.co/pastebin/3558c043eecc1d17354416d093c45aaa815b39d2.nil.html