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23:00:48
no-defun-allowed
i got a very, very weird error using websocket-driver on heroku: https://pastebin.com/4XjhbYQ4
23:01:15
no-defun-allowed
i think it's cause it uses fast-io, which uses static-vectors, which uses CFFI which doesn't load right for some reason
23:09:48
fortitude
no-defun-allowed: looks like CFFI is using a macro called OS-COND that hasn't been loaded
23:10:37
no-defun-allowed
i honestly don't have a clue, my main priority is getting the buildpack to load a custom hunchentoot acceptor which isn't happening i think
23:12:06
fortitude
no-defun-allowed: maybe try explicitly depending on uiop? that's where OS-COND is from, and the CFFI-TOOLCHAIN system doesn't depend on it
23:12:45
no-defun-allowed
i see, i did force quicklisp to try to update in the deploy script so there could be a problem
23:14:36
no-defun-allowed
what i didn't see was the comment telling me where to put the toplevel function
23:18:11
no-defun-allowed
well, i got the acceptor set up right, but there's still no content on the page
23:23:28
fortitude
is that because hunchentoot's been configured not to do that, or is it because there's some kind of proxy in the middle and you aren't even hitting hunchentoot?
23:53:02
no-defun-allowed
https://github.com/rpav/fast-io/blob/master/fast-io.asd#L15 i suspect this line isn't working right
0:09:14
no-defun-allowed
fucking finally, i just had to make another version of my library and remove anything to do with that client, since even #-server-only wouldn't mask it out
0:30:00
no-defun-allowed
is there an equivalent to with-hash-table-iterator that can be used outside its dynamic extent?
0:33:54
no-defun-allowed
that said, there won't be that many values to store in a list if the hash table fits in memory
0:42:22
aeth
no-defun-allowed: alexandria has a hash-table-keys but it iterates over the whole hash-table and conses up a list of keys
3:27:22
hectorhonn
haskell's reader monad mechanism is basically achieved by common lisp's special variables. yes?
7:38:03
quazimodo
i asked what the strategy is when streaming an audio file, playing & saving it to disc simultaneously. Does the stream go straight to disk & the player just reads from there, or is the data stream multiplexed, one lot into a buffer for audio player consumption and the other lot into a buffer for the disk writer
7:38:24
quazimodo
and if it's the 2nd approach, at what point do you swap from memory buffer from the stream to the disk?
7:45:03
quazimodo
lieven: so some sort of coherent 'write this new stuff from this position x', and 'read this other stuff from this position y' on an open file handle?
7:46:27
quazimodo
and if the network is fast enough, the write's would happen at faster or more of the reads, where you'd check the current write position(x) against the read position(y) to see what can be read, thus putting the actual audio player into a 'pending' state until more info comes in and a read is allowed?
8:49:15
madrik
Would Lisp, Common Lisp in particular, and the Lisp language family in general, is a good language for newbies to programming?
8:50:55
beach
madrik: It is not widely agreed upon what languages belong to some "Lisp family" so it is hard to say anything about languages other than Common Lisp. Plus, this channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.
8:51:22
ioa
madrik i also think so. In fact, I think it's better to start with lisp, especially because of the REPL and the debugger.
8:51:24
beach
madrik: The Common Lisp programming model is MUCH simpler than that of languages such as C or C++.
8:52:03
schweers
It also gives better error messages (no SEGFAULT nonsense, unless you’re doing something naughty)
8:53:07
schweers
beach: do you have experience teaching Lisp to people who have never programmed before?
8:53:48
beach
I can't say I do, no. But I am utterly convinced that it would be much better to start with Lisp than with something like C.
8:54:50
schweers
I would have guessed the same, but I’ve never taught anyone how to program, and I’ve never taught anyone Lisp. So I don’t have any experience to back this up. Hence my question.
8:56:18
schweers
As teaching scheme as a first language was widespread practice at a time, this idea may not even be that radical or novel.
8:57:11
madrik
Doesn't /Winston and Horn/ presume that the reader is a newbie not simply to Lisp, but also to programming?
8:57:58
madrik
Most of the good Lisp books suppose that the reader is at some level beyond the beginning stage.
8:59:51
madrik
And keeping it in the family, /How to Design Programs/ by Felleisen et al is, I understand, a tour de force in pedagogy.
9:00:37
madrik
I think I read somewhere it was a sort of spiritual successor to /The Little Lisper/.
9:01:23
beach
madrik: The second edition looks like it assumes very little prior programming knowledge. But the code looks old and not so idiomatic by today's standards.
9:02:28
minion
madrik: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
9:03:09
madrik
beach: I just checked the 3rd edition of /W&H/, and it uses Common Lisp as it was around 1989. So, not quite ANSI CL, but good enough.
9:03:10
beach
madrik: I found that book tiresome to read, but I wasn't a beginner when I did read it, so I may not be representative.
9:04:16
madrik
beach: I thought the design recipe was a gimmick at first, but I learned to appreciate it later on. It proved most useful in two Common Lisp projects of mine.
9:10:42
shrdlu68
madrik: I can't think of a language whose proponents would say is not good for beginners to learn. Well, maybe Scala.
9:11:35
madrik
While on this topic, would you say that a Lisp system ought to have an interpreter along with a compiler, or would a compiler suffice?
9:12:04
shrdlu68
beach: I think they would say "C++ may not be the best for beginners", but they would not go as far as say that it is not good.
9:13:13
schweers
I had the impression that C++ folks think its the end-all and be-all of languages, and that none other need to exist. So, yes, according to some, one should start with C++.
9:13:26
beach
madrik: There are no intrinsic reasons why an interpreter would have better debugging support. But it depends on how much energy the developers put into the debugging support.
9:15:41
madrik
SBCL has a compiler, Clozure CL has a compiler, CMU CL has both, Allegro CL has both, and LispWorks has both.