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7:56:50
beach
The other day, jackdaniel showed me this PDF of some slides from a talk by Rob Pike: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/utah2000/utah2000.pdf
7:57:40
beach
Perhaps some people will think I am less crazy for suggesting CLOSOS when they see that even very famous people think that it's a good idea to attempt to create new operating systems.
8:01:10
beach
There was a lot of innovation back then, and, as Rob Pike admits, Unix killed all innovation.
8:02:42
DecimPrime
=P well CL has been around for much longer. but still yes suprised it's so lively at this hour
8:03:08
beach
It slows down during the weekend. I suspect many people here have a real life as well.
8:04:13
DecimPrime
i have insomnia so i like to talk to people fom europe etc...they're up but still not as lively in certain rooms
8:05:09
beach
DecimPrime: #lisp is know to be active, and also very helpful, even to newbies (provided they take the advice they are given).
12:56:53
jcowan
beach: I may have mentioned this before, but a good object store should have knowledge of which properties subsume which other properties, which allows the easy recovery of flexible hierarchies.
13:05:54
jcowan
If property A subsumes property B, then (treating them wlg as binary properties) anything with B but not A is treated as a direct child of B, whereas anything with both A and B is treated as a direct child of A. Posix operations mkdir and rmdir establish and disestablish subsumption.
13:10:00
jcowan
(Hmm, that may be wrong; I tend to get A subsumes B and B subsumes A mixed up, but it is correct modulo that.)
13:11:59
jcowan
not that there is anything wrong with links, the idea is to make a directory structure fall out of the meta-information about properties
13:16:15
jcowan
if we are examining the contributors to a paper using our object store, then we see all the contributors listed under the node "contributor". If we then add the information that Alice and Bob are authors, Charlie is an editor, and we do not know what kind of contributor Dave is, we will see three parallel nodes 'author', 'editor', contributor', whose children are Alice + Bob, Charlie, Alice + Bob + Charlie + Dave respectively.
13:16:58
jcowan
But if we now add the metainformation that author and editor are subproperties of contributor, then things change: under contributor we still see Dave, but we also see subdirectories author and editor.
13:21:11
flip214
jcowan: I meant the "links" not as in filesystem links, but as parent-child relationships; you wrote "mkdir" and "rmdir" operations, but don't see how "mkdir" can register a connection between two already existing things
13:24:33
jcowan
The effect of mkdir(A, B) is that directory B becomes a child of directory A. The fact that a directory cannot be the child of more than one directory is due to the problems early Unix encountered with an arbitrary directory graph (it needs memory to traverse and potentially a garbage collector to eliminate or restore closed loops).
13:24:49
jcowan
These issues are now pushed off onto the batch tool fsck, but in a Lisp OS they should be and are an inherent part of the system.
13:25:16
jcowan
Likewise, rmdir removes the parent-child relationship between two directories, and only destroys the former child because it knows that there is no other parent.
13:27:57
flip214
jcowan: yeah, but your example had _preexisting_ things - contributor and author - and for that _my_ view would be "link author contributor/" to establish an "is a" relationship
13:28:48
jcowan
Properties are lightweight: there is no reason to distinguish between creation and reuse.
13:29:46
jcowan
Something I am shoving under the rug is that Posix file graphs have named edges, whereas this one has named nodes. However, people almost always treat Posix files as if they had names.
13:36:59
Bike
yes. declaring the types of arguments in a function tells the compiler what those variables in the function body will be. declaring the type of a function tells the compiler what the types of inputs to and outputs from a function call are.
16:49:00
beach
Hello frodef. Ju just showed up when my (admittedly small) family announced that dinner is ready.
17:16:02
LdBeth
beach: what do you think about integrating object oriented access control? The basic principle is given here http://www.object-oriented-security.org
17:47:30
beach
LdBeth: Thanks for the link. I am too tired to read it today, but I'll have a look tomorrow. I may have to be reminded.
17:58:03
shka_
i have other object, it full fills the same protocol, but it happens to have file that should be closed
17:59:09
shka_
now i lost way to close my file, because proxy can't implement every possible functions
18:00:36
shka_
1) add auto forwarding into proxy (default implementation of generic function will call something like pass-along with it's arguments and the right function so proxy won't have to be bothered with it)
18:01:24
shka_
2) some sort of taint (everything that touches file object produces proxy object that also will be file object