freenode/#lisp - IRC Chatlog

0:54:42 no-defun-allowed Morning LdBeth

1:33:09 lemo_ ** NICK lemo

2:19:11 Trystam ** NICK Tristam

2:22:45 skidd0 has anyone here used snooze? How do you define a route on root?

2:48:17 bleak What would be a real life metaphor for CLOS-style late binding?

2:49:25 bleak I mean in the same sense that communication between cells is a metaphor for message passing in Smalltalk.

3:06:53 Bike like, living cells? that's kind of a loose metaphor

3:08:51 krwq how would you go about writing a macro which would add a prefix to every defun name? (also working recursively)

3:09:05 Bike every defun name in what?

3:11:00 krwq i.e. (with-prefix "FOO" (defun bar () (format t "(i am foobar)"))) and also (with-prefix "FOO" (with-prefix "BAR" (defun lol () (format t "(i am foobarlol)"))))

3:11:21 Bike i wouldn't do that

3:11:34 krwq why not?

3:11:43 krwq I.d like to create some kind of namespaces

3:11:46 Bike i would just write (defun foobar ...)

3:11:49 Bike you have packages for that

3:12:43 krwq i'd like to do it myself in order to translate one language into lisp

3:13:00 Bike if you really must, i'd use something other than defun

3:13:06 Bike defun-with-prefix or something shorter, whatever

3:13:11 Bike then have with-prefix macrolet

3:13:15 bleak Bike: https://www.aomran.com/object-oriented-programming-is-not-about-objects/ <- has a quote from Alan Kay on this.

3:13:28 krwq specifcally you get input as csharp code, then you translate that to lispish version of that and then translate it to lisp code which you could execute

3:14:11 Bike biochemicals aren't usually sent to just one signal, is all

3:14:18 Bike anyway i don't know any metaphor for multiple dispatch

3:14:52 LdBeth doesn't C# have namespace?

3:14:54 krwq so i already got lispification partially working - i used roslyn to generate lisp-like code

3:14:56 krwq yes it does

3:15:01 krwq that's why i need prefixes

3:16:17 krwq in my lisp code i simply run csharp app which print out on the screen lisp code, then i translate and (rather try to for now) execute it

3:16:43 krwq so i.e. i got csharp app with hello world

3:17:04 krwq this is how my current test case look like (this is working): (defparameter *csharp-hello-world-lispified*

3:17:05 krwq '((c#-using "System")

3:17:05 krwq (c#-using "System" "Collections")

3:17:05 krwq (c#-using "System" "Linq")

3:17:05 krwq (c#-using "System" "Text")

3:17:05 krwq (c#-namespace ("HelloWorld")

3:17:05 krwq (c#-class "Program"

3:17:06 krwq (c#-defun "Main" :void (("args" (c#-arr :string)))

3:17:06 krwq (c#-progn

3:17:07 krwq (c#! ("Console" "WriteLine") "Hello, World!")))))))

3:17:09 Bike whoa whoa hey

3:17:27 Bike don't just dump things in the channel, please

3:19:51 krwq https://pastebin.com/1fQKY6dr

3:20:05 krwq so this is my current testcase

3:21:23 krwq i'm thinking how to make it so that it generates something like (defun c#-HelloWorld-Program-Main (args) (format t "Hello, World!"))

3:22:31 Bike assuming the contents of the variable are going to be executed in some lisp like way, i'd just have c#-namespace and c#-class bind a *current-namespace* variable or suchlike

3:22:37 Bike then have c#-defun prepend it to its namespace

3:22:40 Bike nothing to do with cl defun

3:22:47 krwq that's what I did for now

3:23:00 Bike is there a problem with it?

3:23:38 krwq I'm not sure how to finish it: https://pastebin.com/7EPsBD0R

3:24:19 Bike just construct the actual n ame from *current-name*, no?

3:24:33 krwq but then how do i define defun with that name

3:24:49 Bike c#-defun is a macro. just expand into a defun with the appropriate name.

3:25:06 krwq will I be able to read dynamic variables?

3:25:17 LdBeth why not?

3:25:26 Bike oh, right. i suppose you need it to be more lexical.

3:25:33 krwq they might not be bound yet

3:25:35 krwq i think

3:25:39 Bike in that case you use the advanced trick of throwing things into symbol-macrolet

3:26:08 krwq could you give an example?

3:26:13 Bike just a moment

3:26:46 krwq maybe i could just create code and eval it?

3:27:01 krwq at runtime

3:27:33 Bike eval is usually not the right answer

3:28:50 krwq i don't see how else in this case

3:30:12 Bike krwq: https://pastebin.com/3D8uuF7Z

3:32:38 krwq this is complicated :P

3:32:57 Bike so's a c# to lisp translator

3:47:01 krwq ok, i'll read about it over the weekend and finish once I understand how this works. If my project starts working for at least simple cases I'll likely put it somewhere public

5:19:04 beach Good morning everyone!

5:40:53 anon ** NICK Guest29

5:53:15 phoe dlowe: actually I don't want to enter the debugger all the time - I want to signal a condition. Then the user may do whatever he pleases.

5:53:26 phoe Signaling a condition /= entering the debugger, either.

5:58:35 beach Indeed.

6:26:58 aeth phoe: You still might want to do it the return value way if it's faster if it needs to be fast.

6:28:16 aeth e.g. if there's a reasonable expectation that it won't be successful many times in a hot loop

6:29:36 aeth Multiple return values is also sort of the approach gethash does

6:30:06 aeth (It also has an optional default value, so it kind of lets you handle it two ways.)

6:31:16 aeth Imo, there isn't really a Lisp way. The Lisp way is to allow every style in one language.

6:31:23 aeth s/style/paradigm/

6:31:34 aeth (There is only one style for things like parens and spaces!)

7:16:56 phoe aeth: it doesn't need to be fast.

7:33:42 phoe A signaled condition does not have any kind of dynamic extent, right? I can store a reference to it somewhere and process in a completely different place of the program.

7:36:05 beach Absolutely.

7:36:32 phoe Thanks. For a moment, I wasn't sure of that.

7:46:48 phoe Is there some sort of Lisp mechanism that will allow me to do run-time dispatch on conditions and handlers? HANDLER-BIND is a macro and therefore expands at macroexpansion time.

7:47:45 phoe The simplest thing that I can think of is making a HANDLER-BIND on CONDITION and providing it with a function of my choosing. I just wonder if there's a better way.

7:48:46 phoe Either that, or I need to take a step back and rethink what I actually want to achieve.

7:57:01 phoe No, I really want a run-time way of dispatching. I don't really want to do it with macros since they don't tie well into the CLOS-heavy style I'm working with here.

7:57:07 trittweiler phoe, yeah, you could handler-bind a generic function, for example.

7:57:21 phoe trittweiler: I was thinking of that, actually

7:57:54 phoe That would mean that the user could define methods on that function.

7:58:42 phoe Hmmm. That's right! Multiple dispatch comes to the rescue here; I don't have to dispatch on a single argument.

7:58:52 phoe trittweiler: thanks.

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9:04:27 gendl Does anyone know who has sbcl.org registered? Seems it’s down.

9:08:15 beach Yes, Xof told us yesterday.

9:08:54 beach Kevin Rosenberg he says.

10:58:04 shka1 s

10:58:07 shka1 sorry

10:58:31 pjb d

10:58:33 pjb don't be