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10:34:09
makomo_
edgar-rft: regarding your comment about feedback paths -- yes, it's possible to model those as well since pins can be used as input, output or both
10:37:32
mrcom
What's the type declaration for (defun baz (f) (declare (type <<??? something that accepts foo>> f))) ?
10:49:38
mrcom
That's what I wound up doing :/ But the better really, really hates losing to the good.
10:51:00
trittweiler
I'd be surprised if there's a compiler that does anything more with that specification in praxis that it wouldn't do with (declare (type function f))
10:52:42
mrcom
I'm looking more for type checking than optimizing. SBCL definitely checks when it compiles apply or funcall.
10:54:04
trittweiler
When you declare a parameter to be a function, and you funcall that parameter, the compiler doesn't need to go through an implicit call to fdefinition. (As symbols and lists of form '(setf foo) are also callable)
14:13:37
flip214
trittweiler: with SBCL and (optimize speed) the disassembly with the different declare statements is quite different...
15:55:51
beach
random-nick: There is usually no point in asking "why" in such situations. This is true both for programming languages and natural languages. At some point, there was a mysterious consensus that one was better than the other. That's all there is to it usually.
15:57:00
beach
random-nick: Why is it called "tooth brush" but "dental floss" in English? Why not "dental brush" and "tooth floss"?
15:59:27
beach
random-nick: You also have define-compiler-macro, define-method-combination, define-modify-macro, define-setf-expander, define-symbol-macro.
16:01:29
jackdaniel
random-nick: one (made up) reason could be, that defun and defmacro were heritage from older lisps, while "modern" way for naming macros when CL was standarized was using define-* and the were to add conditions to the language
16:02:55
jackdaniel
random-nick: I've given you a made up excuse, there could be others. I wouldn't bother with figuring that out
16:03:04
jackdaniel
there are more annoying inconsistencies in CL, like argument order in aref and gethash for that instance
16:05:30
jackdaniel
I haven't seen even one project which would use CL21; I've only seen people praising or ignoring it ;-)
16:05:46
jmercouris
I've never used it, simply because the problems it addresses don't bother me enough
16:25:13
jackdaniel
or if I use named-readtables and I have #f as lambda dispatch - is it inconsistent?
16:25:25
pjb
(and there is unfortunately a lot of code that is not conforming: that is dependent on specificities of eg. sbcl).
16:31:02
JuanDaugherty
without expecting them to debug or develop around shortcomings/lack of completion in CLIM
16:31:51
JuanDaugherty
the why not is because some years ago it was not in that state, at least as far as use with sbcl
16:31:53
jackdaniel
usually writing complete applications requires some debugging and developing around shortcomings of used libraries. if that's your definition then it is not production ready ;)
16:33:37
jackdaniel
well, that depends then solely on the programmer. if he exposes interfaces which allow corruping application from the end-user point of view, then they will be able to corrupt it. but I truly don't think it is any library-specific problem, just a matter of testing and programming / qa effort
16:35:20
jackdaniel
what's based on use of it? I've stated an opinion about all software above, not CLIM particularily
16:36:45
jackdaniel
biggest shortcomming one could find is that McCLIM depends on X server running currently to have something displayed on the screen
16:38:00
jackdaniel
limitation is more painful when you consider distribution for Windows or OSX - that requires installing X-server by hand
16:50:41
jmercouris
and consider also the fact that cl21 has changes to the way you deal with hashes, etc
16:51:16
_death
CL is a product of a variety of traditions, languages, people.. it is not a theoretical ideal of a single mind, so inconsistencies are expected. that "CL21" thing is one person's (abandoned?) take on how things should be, with its own inconsistencies and oddities.. its name was not well chosen
16:52:58
_death
so if you flip "CL21" in your mind to "SOMEGUYSLISP" you'll see that there's no real reason to even mention it
16:59:23
JuanDaugherty
ACTION took a bbc quiz to find 'your secret nationality' and it came out Romanian
17:01:40
JuanDaugherty
my impression is that caveats aside, if you are reasonably conscientious about explicitly invoking gc in sbcl it's not really a performance hit
17:14:18
JuanDaugherty
ACTION now, having tried the demo, understands what was meant about X being at issue
17:16:25
JuanDaugherty
fwiw, jackdaniel 1974 was a lot like 2018 with appropriate substitutions, e.g. 'nixon' for 'trump'
17:23:27
asarch
"The following restarts are available: SKIP :R1 skip (IN-PACKAGE ASDF-USER), RETRY :R2 retry (IN-PACKAGE ASDF-USER), ..., Break 1 ASDF0[5]>"