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2:37:49
aeth
didi: It also depends on what you're storing. If you're storing (unsigned-byte 8)s or single-floats or bits, etc., you could use :element-type in make-array
2:39:22
didi
Like I said, I don't want to make any general statement. Just compare my program memory usage by using different data structures.
2:50:17
Jachy
(TBRSS was an rss reader and I think you could sign up to have it archive things for you similar to Pinboard, but there's a lot of open source lisp code the author released around it.)
2:52:39
mfiano
slyrus_: Do note that com.informatigo is released under the terms of the GNU AGPL, and may not be compatible with a great deal of other Lisp software.
2:53:38
slyrus_
ok, thanks mfiano and Jachy. looking to replace pjb's html generator with something else.
2:54:40
mfiano
It was by far the most pleasant to work with to me after trying more than a handful over the last few years
2:58:56
didi
Uh, I didn't know SBCL could profile memory allocation. This is great. Thank you, Jachy, for the article.
3:02:54
Jachy
Has anyone tried making a Clojure <-> ABCL bridge? They're just two jars.. :) But then you could use Hiccup.
4:00:03
beach
mfiano: I developed Cluffer that way, i.e. using several packages and an internal protocol.
4:00:46
montxero
Thanks <mfiano> and others. It turns out I what I needed to do was to compile the functions in my current instance of slime/sbcl.
4:01:23
montxero
mfiano: following your advise, I will not use load for individual functions. Thanks
4:04:28
mfiano
beach: Yeah it does seem the way to go, and what has worked well for very large projects of mine in the past. I guess what I was getting at is it's going to be a considerable amount of time before I have a protocol which is stable enough, even for internal use, and it's easier to develop with a single package during early development, where early at this scale is several months at least.
4:04:50
mfiano
It's just too much meta-programming (and not the fun kind!) and too early when I should be sketching out a PoC
4:05:59
beach
In my case, it was not the first time I thought about this kind of software (I have been thinking about it for some 30 years and produced various versions), so I pretty much knew the issues.
4:06:32
beach
Where "this kind of software" is an "editable sequences", specifically for use as a text buffer in a text editor.
4:08:52
mfiano
After all, I did move to CL over a decade ago for the reason that it was better at prototypical code than what I was using at the time.
4:09:35
mfiano
It is important to spend more time on ideas during early development than protocols and nomenclature in my honest opinion.
4:11:54
mfiano
Speaking of Cluffer, how is SecondClimacs coming along these days? I admit it's been a year or two since I checked on it.
4:12:31
beach
It is stalled at the moment. I am working on the specification of the garbage collector for SICL right now.
4:14:36
beach
And I have been distracted by the work of MichaelRaskin on debugging. It gave me the idea that I could give support for something like Clordane without having a native SICL version. Instead, I could use it for debugging cross-compiled SICL code inside SBCL, which would be a huge advantage over debugging core dumps.
4:15:33
beach
I am not much into masochistic programming practices, so I try to minimize my own pain when it comes to software development.
4:17:07
beach
I am worried about this GC thing though. I fear that nobody I know has both the time and the competence to read and understand my specification. If so, I would have to implement it myself to verify that it works, and that would certainly be very painful.
4:21:45
uncommon_lisp
I could try reading your spec - but I can only offer a nod of approval and a thumbs up afterwards because I probably wouldn't understand it.
4:22:37
beach
uncommon_lisp: That's very kind of you. I'll work on it a bit more and then I'll submit it for remarks here. I know flip214 is expecting more material from me before he is able to comment any further.
4:23:25
beach
He is right that it was very sketchy, and I need to work out the details. And there turn out to be many such details to work out.
4:28:37
Jachy
Is the spec for a particular GC implementation or for being able to integrate/swap different GCs?
4:29:12
beach
Jachy: That would be very hard to do. The GC is intimately tied to other implementation aspects of the system.
4:30:18
beach
Jachy: The book is absolutely horrible when it comes to the writing itself, but it does contain a fairly complete description of must existing techniques.
4:31:03
Jachy
I've got a digital copy of the garbage collection handbook if that's the one you're referring to though I have barely scratched the surface in the past.
4:31:25
Jachy
I'm just thinking of the JVM with its several GC implementations (and a few proprietary ones like Azul's) has been an advantage.
4:31:57
pillton
When is the 2016 edition coming out in dead tree form? The website has been saying soon for ages. I emailed the publisher and I got no reply.
4:32:29
beach
Jachy: Just keep in mind that, if you read a section and do not understand it, it may not be your fault. It could very well be the bad writing.
4:33:05
uncommon_lisp
I was going to buy that book but now I'm not so sure I want to waste money on bad writing
4:34:12
uncommon_lisp
I could request that you write several essays and compile them into a book for me, and then post it here.
4:35:09
beach
Heh. On GC, specifically? Sure, but I would manly just rehash what the others have already written.
4:36:11
beach
There might be some value to that, because I think of myself as a better writer than Jones. Maybe not better than Paul Wilson, though.
4:37:18
uncommon_lisp
If you do write a comprehensive paper on it (not in a scholarly, verbose fashion, but in the style of K&R or Maurice J. Bach's design of unix), I'd read it for sure
4:40:42
uncommon_lisp
Btw, I missed the conversation regarding the gc (what it's for (the software package I mean)) - are you writing the gc and everything in CL?
4:40:44
Jachy
Wilson's paper seems very familiar, I suspect I read it before sometime in the last 4-6 years but it's not in my finished folder..
4:42:28
beach
uncommon_lisp: I am planning to write as much as possible in Common Lisp. For now, I am just writing a detailed specification of the GC I am planning for SICL.
4:43:06
Jachy
It is dated in that no mention of real time GC, but the Handbook only goes over that in the final chapter. Doesn't seem like there's that much interest in real time systems in the broader environment anyway.
4:51:15
uncommon_lisp
The climacs editor in particular was something I was really interested in back when I was trying my best to avoid emacs.
7:02:58
flip214
beach: just prove that your GC is correct, no need for debugging or even writing it then ;P
11:04:19
jmercouris
jackdaniel: outside of mcclim, what is, in your opinion the best cross-platform GUI?
11:04:36
jackdaniel
there is a separate system (in the same tar shipped by quicklisp) which gives you many useful widgets
11:09:07
jackdaniel
everything is a huge challenge given person in question needs to learn the basics of the tool in question
11:10:22
jmercouris
I had to make modifications to the actual source of EQL to get it to work with different versions of QT
11:10:33
jmercouris
and platform specific differences for how one distributes a binary are also a huge challenge
11:10:45
jmercouris
normally when working in the QT environment, QT provides all of that tooling for you
11:11:00
jmercouris
but when you have to use unupdated insufficient command line tools, it isn't a good time
11:11:15
jmercouris
it would be like trying to compile and distribute an xcode project entirely on the command line, its totally possible, but its totally not made easy for you
11:11:37
jackdaniel
I don't understand what you are saying, but that's most likely lack of knowledge on my site. I'll be back later
11:24:44
jmercouris
jackdaniel: https://github.com/next-browser/next/tree/07778d29925be3c936d9b1df5060abda7d68abef/next
11:25:09
jmercouris
for the record, it would not even install on OSX when I started, that is far later on, the earlier instructions are even worse
11:25:34
jackdaniel
but what do I know ,) either way, OSX isn't very appealing platform, I believe you
11:28:06
jackdaniel
not against me, I have no interest (sorry about that), how deep into craziness you've digged on OSC ;p
11:28:27
flip214
DEFTYPE allows to do parametric types, like (DEFTYPE UINT (size) `(INTEGER 0 ,(1- (expt 2 size)))). but such types can't be used in DEFMETHOD, right?
11:29:38
jackdaniel
what you could do is to detect type during dispatch and construct object of a specific class (to dispatch on it) – look at filtered-functions for such possibility
12:01:29
jmercouris
aha, here it is: https://www.common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Communication-style.html