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16:14:45
Bike
i forgot you can't have multiple methods in the same group if they have the same level of specialization, which makes the whole exercise even mroe pointless than it was already
16:43:59
orestarod
my question regards cl-yacc and I want a clarification regarding whether it is possible to state precedence for prefix operands in my grammar
16:49:23
scymtym_
orestarod: not sure if this is what you need, but for infix operators in esrap grammars, maybe have a look at https://github.com/scymtym/parser.common-rules/#infix-operators . it can handle some common cases
16:54:01
orestarod
scymtym_: I would need to rewrite my grammar in your parser. If I see no light from cl-yacc, I will switch to your work and maybe consult you after reading the docs. Thank you nonetheless! :)
16:55:30
Bike
eight lines to cover basic arithmetic seems a lot more convenient than yacc, though maybe it's hard to do in addition to non-expressions or something
16:56:50
orestarod
What I am trying to do is more complex than simple arithmetics,though not too complex. I will provide the grammar if you wish to check for yourself and maybe tell me a few tips.
16:56:57
Bike
minion: message for scymtym: in the parser.common-rules readme, the link to architecture.builder-protocol in the "infix operators" section is a little messed up.
16:56:58
minion
message for scymtym in the parser.common-rules readme, the link to architecture.builder-protocol in the "infix operators" section is a little messed up: An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "http://www.cliki.net/message%20for%20scymtym%20in%20the%20parser.common-rules%20readme%2C%20the%20link%20to%20architecture.builder-protocol%20in%20the%20\"infix%20operators\"%20section%20is%20a%20little%20messed%20up?source" contains illegal character #\" a
16:57:35
orestarod
THe problem is the grammar is inherently ambiguous, and needs proper operand precedence to solve that
18:12:53
mfiano
Oh, nevermind. I thought you were the maintainer of McCLIM. Sigh, I am getting really confused lately.
18:31:26
mfiano
Likewise, but moreso that something like this could be created in a such a short period.
18:34:51
phoe
People can prepare their libraries in advance, but they start coding at a given hour of a given day and they must finish coding before a given hour of another day.
18:36:14
mfiano
jackdaniel: Thanks for the excellent work in McCLIM if I never thanked you (and all the other contributers too).
18:39:53
mfiano
Some months ago I saw that my pngload library was forked in preparation for the mezzano port, and I'd like to know if that ever got anywhere
18:40:34
jackdaniel
well, as far as I know it works just fine on mezzano, I think he needs to tie some loose ends here and there and it will be merged upstream
18:41:02
jackdaniel
he was a little blocked by me, because I was refactoring mirror class hierarchy until two weeks ago
18:43:10
mfiano
After the jam deadline (tonight/tomorrow depending where you live), everyone will have 4 days to play and then rate their favorites, so stop by again then :)
18:44:46
jackdaniel
but that will have to wait until I'm done with things (now I'm hacking on ECL and I'm learning Forth)
19:12:38
phoe
flip214: https://github.com/phoe/protest/blob/master/src/1am/1am.lisp that's my integration code
19:14:17
flip214
phoe: but neither quickdocs nor quicklisp:system-apropos nor a listing of my ~/quicklisp/.../software found any matching system name!
19:21:15
phoe
jackdaniel: I promise you that the next testing framework I create will be called HALF-PAST-TWO
19:21:25
flip214
phoe: I looked for "4", "5", and "6", each "pm" and "am", but couldn't find anything.
19:22:33
phoe
jackdaniel: thanks for the heads-up, I'll think of integrating it with PROTEST based on my 1AM code
19:23:40
jackdaniel
do whatever you please. I'm not planning to put it on quicklisp, I'm already confused with unit test frameworks we have, not going to make the problem bigger
19:44:43
Xof
Bike: that (:method-combination machine) looks surprisingly sane. Doesn't use arguments or generic-function, though :-)
19:49:59
Bike
so really we'd like to have an infinite number of metnod groups. define method combination is not powerful enough, obvs
20:02:48
Xof
but you can make your machine method combination work with sbcl by making :start a method-combination argument
20:39:52
Petit_Dejeuner
Anyone want to reccomend a testing framework? I was just going to use lisp-unit or maybe 5am, but my reccomendations are 11 years old now.
20:41:37
jackdaniel
as of other gazzilion unit testing frameworks – can't tell. 1am is good for running tests by hand and stress tests
23:59:08
pfdietz_
I've found it useful to run unit tests repeatedly in random order. In systems with hidden state this can expose bugs. Found a bug in clisp doing this.
2:07:32
pierpa
"My advisor (Dan Friedman) used to express it like this in the 1980s: \"Software crisis? What software crisis? Just put all programmers in front of a Lisp machine and your crisis is over.\"" -- Matthias Felleisen, 1 hour ago.
2:41:45
pierpa
(MFs point, though, is that at the time they were wrong. He wrote this in a rant *against* Lisp Machines style of developing software)
3:40:56
ealfonso
I'm trying to debug a condition raised in my hunchentoot , but I don't want to resort to print statements when I have slime. Is there a way to get backtraces from hunchentoot handlers in slime?
3:45:32
shrdlu68
Did LispMachines of old have system calls as we know them today? I'm trying to gain perspective on whether it would be possible/desirable to expose the OS's API by some other means, perhaps through a pseudo-filesystem of network.
3:49:38
p_l
what the oldest of them had was multi-threaded VM lying deep inside the CPU that handled some of the work in a way that could be considered "syscalls", but more adequately formed the "Virtual Machine" in which the code lived
3:53:51
p_l
also classic windows pre 4.x (i.e. 1.01 - 3.x) which was implemented essentially as a bunch of shared libraries you linked with
3:54:30
shrdlu68
I'm wondering whether it would make sense to expose syscalls in Linux in some other way, such that one doesn't have to rely in C/Assembly to interface with the kernel.
3:55:57
p_l
shrdlu68: well, you need to do the actual call. Though VDSO kinda does exactly that, for some specialized calls that don't actually do any context switch
3:57:21
p_l
shrdlu68: also, several systems had language-agnostic call interfaces, it's more of an Unix thing that brought C-defined interfaces itno life
3:58:40
beach
shrdlu68: Is it something like this that you are thinking of? http://metamodular.com/POSIX-API/
3:58:45
p_l
shrdlu68: the documentation for VMS should be still out there on HP webservers, it was one of the more language agnostic systems
3:59:18
p_l
MVS (now called z/OS) is old enough to not care, and had significant amount of code written to this day in assembly
3:59:49
p_l
While a lot of windows is now in C land, the COM system is *heavily* used to provide API and handle ABIs
4:00:11
p_l
especially since you can't depend on such silly things as malloc() and free() being the same for two different libs
4:02:26
p_l
I *suspect* AS/400 (now called IBM i) might have Lisp Machine-style lack of system calls across all languages outside of the POSIX environmnet
4:02:57
p_l
but that's because it has capability-style addressing, so calling a function might actually trigger apropriate security measures
4:04:10
p_l
I do sometimes envy the people who got to actually experience or build the things I only got to read about or use emulators for
4:05:19
beach
p_l: I can see that. So how about you help build a LispOS according to my specification? Then you would be part of something like that.
4:08:02
p_l
hard to say. Current priorities involve paying off debts ASAP, in order to free up capital for a planned move to france
4:08:56
p_l
beach: girlfriend likes warm climates, wants spacious area far away from people and a big house :)
4:08:58
beach
shrdlu68: Not really, no. For my LispOS project I don't plan to have anything POSIX like.
4:10:08
shrdlu68
beach: I'm not sure I understand the document. I'm thinking of writing a kernel module that would facilitate language-agnostic syscalls in the Linux kernel. Is this something like that?
4:12:08
beach
shrdlu68: I would need more time to think about it. I haven't had my coffee yet, and it is still early in the morning. :)
4:12:27
p_l
shrdlu68: ahh, one more interesting thing to read, possibly, is classic x86 segmentation and permission handling involved
4:12:46
vtomole
Why does (apply '+ '(1 2))=> 3 and (apply 'and '(1 NIL)) =>The function COMMON-LISP:AND is undefined.?
4:13:03
p_l
shrdlu68: I haven't looked at it in a long time, but it had "call gates" which controlled how you could call from different "modules" with different permission levels