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9:58:22
makomo
most of the stuff that another friend was telling me about, how cool all of these features are in intellij and how eclipse doens't have them, was plain wrong
9:58:33
makomo
eclipse had all of them, he just never even tried to use them because intellij is new and better
9:58:47
TMA
makomo: it is a natural feeling, most people consider themselves young _and_ better than anyone else (it is a well established fact of human psychology). they just mistake their own personal bias/delusions with natural laws
10:00:48
jack_rabbit
I began writing some tools for Java editing in emacs, but got frustrated, and decided just not to write Java anymore.
10:01:01
TMA
when editing java, I routinely use all three big ides -- eclipse, netbeans and intellij.
10:02:11
jack_rabbit
makomo, I gave eclim a fair shot, but found it unintuitive. It seemed to get in the way more than it was helpful.
10:03:29
jack_rabbit
makomo, It seemed inconsistent. There were also some features that seemed to require a fixed window layout. I'm not sure how they hacked emacs to behave that way, but it was very strange.
10:04:13
jack_rabbit
makomo, Basically instead of providing tools and such to use with my regular work flow, it seemed to require me to conform to its rigid rules.
10:05:56
jack_rabbit
I ended up just going back to my sed and grep scripts for finding classes and stuff. :)
10:06:47
makomo
in conclusion, i consider CL/Lisp to be one of the most important discoveries i've made
10:07:08
makomo
it has opened my eyes to many things, and allowed me to see the essence of many language features
10:08:51
jack_rabbit
I have written a couple of import-related emacs functions for Java: https://gist.github.com/knusbaum/a0934a7a6de986420e683704a38bf58f
10:10:35
makomo
i have to learn more of the emacs api to be able to do anything non-trivial with emacs
10:11:06
makomo
learning emacs lisp is easy. it's the emacs ideas/internals/apis you need to really learn
10:12:16
makomo
sometimes it's a bit confusing, even more so since i'm using spacemacs and then some stuff doens't really work as described
10:13:06
makomo
it allowed me to get a quick start on emacs and make me feel at home with its vim keybinds
10:13:37
makomo
the greatest thing about vim are its keybinds and the whole concept of modal editing imo
10:14:20
makomo
so i'm glad something like spacemacs exists, and it's good to introduce newbies too because of the familiar vim keybinds/modes
10:15:02
makomo
now when i know more about lisp, i'm considering going back to raw emacs and trying to do it myself, but we'll see about that
10:16:13
jack_rabbit
I've never found it that useful. I just hold down Ctrl and issue commands. I guess it's sort of like a rapid mode switch.
10:17:09
makomo
when you start out you're in "normal mode", to enter insert mode you just press "i", and then "ESC" to go back to normal mode
10:33:34
TMA
the problem with the default emacs keybinding for me is my supershort pinky finger. that and the left ctrl being too far, the right too awkwardly positioned.
10:57:05
dim
is it possible to build SBCL in a way that the sbcl binary then contains extra .so dependencies, such as openssl.so or sqlite.so?
11:03:31
dim
yeah, to avoid having to dlopen from the image when it's possible that the symbol found at dlopen won't match the symbols found at image creation time
11:04:38
dim
now that I had to write this, I wonder if having the .so in the binary header rather than used with dlopen() is going to have an impact on the problem...
11:05:51
p_l
dim: you might want to write a hook before save-lisp-and-die, which dumps a list of shared objects, copies them to where the image is to be saved, and rewrites the list to contain image-relative paths
13:17:23
pierpal
ebrasca: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/tools/xref/0.html
14:30:35
puchacz
I know they can have names, but names are not unique and they exist only for threads I create.
14:33:32
puchacz
I am not sure about semantics of special variables; (let ((*special-var* (random-string))) ....) for example ?
14:36:06
puchacz
shka: yes, it will work. however I was hoping I could have a mechanism that works for all threads I can encounter, not only these I create or control somehow
14:36:43
puchacz
for truly ThreadLocal variables, I could just (unless (threadlocal :name) (setf (threadlocal :name) (gensym))
14:39:13
shka
anyway, i don't run into thread issues, mostly because i am really good at avoiding explicit synchronization :P
14:40:54
shka
everybody is, just don't try to be smart, keep things simple and separated and you are fine
14:42:04
shka
so share very little between threads (mutable stuff), and explicitly mark those things
17:28:13
puchacz
hi, in unwind-protect, will cleanup body be executed even if return-from the whole function?
18:08:21
makomo
i would like to use conses as keys into my hashtable but i would like a special equality test for them
18:32:31
sjl
If you want to use vectors as keys based on their contents, you need to use #'equalp, but that will also make strings ignore case
18:35:37
shka_
sjl: actually, if you want to be so anal about sxhash, standard allows returning same number for every string as well
18:37:44
shka_
there is plenty of use cases for custom hashtables, but it is not worth to use it if you can simply use equal
18:38:43
makomo
i mean, it would definitely be overkill, but using the chance to explore other options is always nice
19:48:19
Baggers
doesthiswork: a bit quiet here today, maybe due to ELS. If you have time it could be worth reporting this on the mailing list.